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If the cast member who decided to leave was Johnny instead of Jim, would the series still end?


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11 hours ago, shell said:

That's really not true about Jim thinking there were no more Shamy stories. He said 'no more stories' in general. He didn't even know his character would win the Nobel when he decided not to continue with show. He was never focused on just his own character.CL could have continued but he pulled the plug

I was not trying to diminish Jim's decision in any way. He felt that is what he had to do. However, you cannot deny that the majority of the stories the last three years were concentrated on Sheldon/Shamy. This is what I was emphasizing that the SheldonShamy storylines were aired at the expense of the others in the ensemble.

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6 hours ago, Mario D. said:

I was not trying to diminish Jim's decision in any way. He felt that is what he had to do. However, you cannot deny that the majority of the stories the last three years were concentrated on Sheldon/Shamy. This is what I was emphasizing that the SheldonShamy storylines were aired at the expense of the others in the ensemble.

But, you can't blame him Maybe that was one of the reasons he wanted out. Like I said, if Chuck L hadn't pulled the plug you would have had it your way I just wanted to point out, he wasn't only concerned with the 'Shamy' stories.  He said there were no more stories left for the 'whole ensemble'. Jim had no idea his character would win the Nobel in the last episode. He always treated the other actors as equals.-he never acted above them like the show was his

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1 hour ago, shell said:

But, you can't blame him Maybe that was one of the reasons he wanted out. Like I said, if Chuck L hadn't pulled the plug you would have had it your way I just wanted to point out, he wasn't only concerned with the 'Shamy' stories.  He said there were no more stories left for the 'whole ensemble'. Jim had no idea his character would win the Nobel in the last episode. He always treated the other actors as equals.-he never acted above them like the show was his

Nobody is blaming Jim. The blame falls on Chuck Lorre for no having the foresight o see he still had a good show even without Jim Parsons.

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2 minutes ago, chucky said:

Nobody is blaming Jim. The blame falls on Chuck Lorre for no having the foresight o see he still had a good show even without Jim Parsons.

Believe me Everyone is blaming Jim

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1 minute ago, shell said:

Believe me Everyone is blaming Jim

Not everyone. Just a few frustrated fans. As I said the blame is Chuck Lorre's to shoulder.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, shell said:

Believe me Everyone is blaming Jim

While I do not fault JP for wanting to move on with his career, TBBT effectively died the minute he announced he would not do another season. So, in that respect, I do blame Jim. For Chuck Lorre to say there were no more stories to be told is short sighted. A good writing team could have brought some good material for the other characters and told some entertaining stories. Would those stories have been embraced by TBBT fans? I don't know. Fact is a lot of the fans were not exactly enamored with the last several seasons so it is definitely uncertain what reception a Sheldonless TBBT would have received.

It is interesting that JP, who wanted to move on from Sheldon, is still hooked to the character on a weekly basis, while the others have truly had to move onto other projects. For most of this cast TBBT will be the crowning moment of their respective careers. I don't follow them as closely as some but only JP and KC seem to be maintaing any serious career momentum.

Edited by HeWolf
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3 hours ago, shell said:

But, you can't blame him Maybe that was one of the reasons he wanted out. Like I said, if Chuck L hadn't pulled the plug you would have had it your way I just wanted to point out, he wasn't only concerned with the 'Shamy' stories.  He said there were no more stories left for the 'whole ensemble'. Jim had no idea his character would win the Nobel in the last episode. He always treated the other actors as equals.-he never acted above them like the show was his

I realize that you are a JP fan and you feel the need to defend him but I do not blame him for TBBT demise. Though there are many people who do. And we do not know what conversations went on with the cast and Jim. Before Chuck Lorre pulled the plug it seemed everyone involved wanted to continue with at least one more season. But the original point I was making was the writers focused so much on the SheldonShamy storyline that I believe the other cast members were sacrificed and their storylines were rushed into season 12 to gain closure.

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15 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

But the original point I was making was the writers focused so much on the SheldonShamy storyline that I believe the other cast members were sacrificed and their storylines were rushed into season 12 to gain closure

So very true!!

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2 hours ago, chucky said:

So very true!!

There seems to be some stories brewing about a possible reunion show. I, for one would love to see this but it probably is a little too soon. However, don't think they can wait that long as these characters (actors) are getting older and unless the reunion is a time jump it would not be credible. But would love to see how Penny and Leonard managed her pregnancy, Howard and Bernadette settling into family life, Shamy navigating through their Nobel success, and Raj finally finding the romance he has seeked.

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1 hour ago, Mario D. said:

There seems to be some stories brewing about a possible reunion show. I, for one would love to see this but it probably is a little too soon. However, don't think they can wait that long as these characters (actors) are getting older and unless the reunion is a time jump it would not be credible. But would love to see how Penny and Leonard managed her pregnancy, Howard and Bernadette settling into family life, Shamy navigating through their Nobel success, and Raj finally finding the romance he has seeked.

Agreed! Maybe they can do a flash back of when Penny told Leonard that she was pregnant since we were robbed of that special moment.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/11/2021 at 12:22 PM, Mario D. said:

There seems to be some stories brewing about a possible reunion show. I, for one would love to see this but it probably is a little too soon. However, don't think they can wait that long as these characters (actors) are getting older and unless the reunion is a time jump it would not be credible. But would love to see how Penny and Leonard managed her pregnancy, Howard and Bernadette settling into family life, Shamy navigating through their Nobel success, and Raj finally finding the romance he has seeked.

Where have you seen these stories? All I've seen is Kaley saying she'd be up for a reunion at any time. Last year Mayim seemed pretty dismissive of the idea, citing possible legal conflicts and opining that it's 'too soon.' Of course, that was before the awful "Call Me Kat" made its appearance. Apologies to anyone that enjoys that drivel. A quick search of 'Big Bang Theory' reunion didn't produce anything tied to the other actors.

Edited by HeWolf
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4 hours ago, Mario D. said:

I realize that you are a JP fan and you feel the need to defend him but I do not blame him for TBBT demise. Though there are many people who do. And we do not know what conversations went on with the cast and Jim. Before Chuck Lorre pulled the plug it seemed everyone involved wanted to continue with at least one more season. But the original point I was making was the writers focused so much on the SheldonShamy storyline that I believe the other cast members were sacrificed and their storylines were rushed into season 12 to gain closure.

I know you don't blame him for the show ending but I wanted to get straight the fact that he didn't end because 'there were no more Shamy stories' which is not at all true. I have listened to many interviews and he had tons of personal reasons for ending. And the cast hadn't even been offered another season. Sure--I guess Shamy was more prominent throughout the show but I wouldn't be too jealous, the stories weren't that great that did feature Shamy The writing was going downhill through the whole show. 

5 hours ago, HeWolf said:

While I do not fault JP for wanting to move on with his career, TBBT effectively died the minute he announced he would not do another season. So, in that respect, I do blame Jim. For Chuck Lorre to say there were no more stories to be told is short sighted. A good writing team could have brought some good material for the other characters and told some entertaining stories. Would those stories have been embraced by TBBT fans? I don't know. Fact is a lot of the fans were not exactly enamored with the last several seasons so it is definitely uncertain what reception a Sheldonless TBBT would have received.

It is interesting that JP, who wanted to move on from Sheldon, is still hooked to the character on a weekly basis, while the others have truly had to move onto other projects. For most of this cast TBBT will be the crowning moment of their respective careers. I don't follow them as closely as some but only JP and KC seem to be maintaing any serious career momentum.

The fact that someone could actually blame him for leaving his job floors me. Do you really believe a person should keep playing a character and doing a full-time job they are no long invested in to please some fans that might think the show should continue? The actor is to sacrifice a year or two out of his life so that a show is seen for half an hour 20 or so times a year by viewers? Fans do not own an actor.

And Young Sheldon is not TBBT 

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53 minutes ago, HeWolf said:

Where have you seen these stories? All I've seen is Kaley saying she'd be up for a reunion at any time. Last year Mayim seemed pretty dismissive of the idea, citing possible legal conflicts and pining that it's 'too soon.' Of course, that was before the awful "Call Me Kat" made its appearance. Apologies to anyone that enjoys that drivel. A quick search of 'Big Bang Theory' reunion didn't produce anything tied to the other actors.

I have seen a few of those stories from Kaley citing her excitement to do a reunion show, however, I have to admit I don't know if they were all from the same interview. But my point was I would love to see a reunion show and although there was closure for some there still were issues that were left unanswered, unexplained, and unresolved. But I do not believe all these issues can be answered in presumably a one-hour reunion show. But it is nice to think about.

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16 hours ago, Mario D. said:

I have seen a few of those stories from Kaley citing her excitement to do a reunion show, however, I have to admit I don't know if they were all from the same interview. But my point was I would love to see a reunion show and although there was closure for some there still were issues that were left unanswered, unexplained, and unresolved. But I do not believe all these issues can be answered in presumably a one-hour reunion show. But it is nice to think about.

I would definitely love to see a reunion show. With or without Sheldon!

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On 3/11/2021 at 2:28 PM, shell said:

The fact that someone could actually blame him for leaving his job floors me. Do you really believe a person should keep playing a character and doing a full-time job they are no long invested in to please some fans that might think the show should continue? The actor is to sacrifice a year or two out of his life so that a show is seen for half an hour 20 or so times a year by viewers? Fans do not own an actor.

And Young Sheldon is not TBBT 

In no way do I fault JP for wanting to move on with his career. He wants to pursue other projects and opportunities and I hope he finds success and fulfillment in all of them. That does not mean I cannot simultaneously attribute the ending of TBBT to his decision not to continue. There is no ambiguity involved. Chuck Lorre, (and the rest of the cast), were prepared to do a season 13 until JP announced he would not return. Not only did that end the show. It put a lot of people out of work. No doubt many of the production staff found other jobs. No doubt some of them did not. This is a dilemma faced by successful people in any number of career fields. Their decisions impact many people and I have no doubt JP considered this and made a tough choice. 

TBBT without fresh ideas needed to end. Too many Shamy oriented, and juvenile Sheldon dominated, stories were lowering the quailty of the episodes. This had been the case for several seasons.

Agreed. YS is not TBBT. However, JP is still tied to Sheldon. He still benefits professionally and financially from the character. The character he said he wanted to move on from to pursue other ventures.

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3 hours ago, HeWolf said:

In no way do I fault JP for wanting to move on with his career. He wants to pursue other projects and opportunities and I hope he finds success and fulfillment in all of them. That does not mean I cannot simultaneously attribute the ending of TBBT to his decision not to continue. There is no ambiguity involved. Chuck Lorre, (and the rest of the cast), were prepared to do a season 13 until JP announced he would not return. Not only did that end the show. It put a lot of people out of work. No doubt many of the production staff found other jobs. No doubt some of them did not. This is a dilemma faced by successful people in any number of career fields. Their decisions impact many people and I have no doubt JP considered this and made a tough choice. 

TBBT without fresh ideas needed to end. Too many Shamy oriented, and juvenile Sheldon dominated, stories were lowering the quailty of the episodes. This had been the case for several seasons.

Agreed. YS is not TBBT. However, JP is still tied to Sheldon. He still benefits professionally and financially from the character. The character he said he wanted to move on from to pursue other ventures.

I really appreciate your thought process. I agree with your post.

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8 hours ago, HeWolf said:

In no way do I fault JP for wanting to move on with his career. He wants to pursue other projects and opportunities and I hope he finds success and fulfillment in all of them. That does not mean I cannot simultaneously attribute the ending of TBBT to his decision not to continue. There is no ambiguity involved. Chuck Lorre, (and the rest of the cast), were prepared to do a season 13 until JP announced he would not return. Not only did that end the show. It put a lot of people out of work. No doubt many of the production staff found other jobs. No doubt some of them did not. This is a dilemma faced by successful people in any number of career fields. Their decisions impact many people and I have no doubt JP considered this and made a tough choice. 

TBBT without fresh ideas needed to end. Too many Shamy oriented, and juvenile Sheldon dominated, stories were lowering the quailty of the episodes. This had been the case for several seasons.

Agreed. YS is not TBBT. However, JP is still tied to Sheldon. He still benefits professionally and financially from the character. The character he said he wanted to move on from to pursue other ventures.

But all it comes down to is that he didn't want to continue starring in TBBT. It was Chuck Lorres' decision to end the show. It wasn't Jim Parsons that stated the show will now end.

It strangely reminds me of someone saying, "You made me mad so I had to hit you, it's all your fault.' or along those lines...Someone justifying their action by putting the blame on someone else.

And in YS he is not acting. He recites a few lines each show. He doesn't have to go in front of the camera to act the part of Sheldon. He had just started a production co. so initially he was going to produce a show based on his smart nephew when CL suggested it be a YS show. He never said he hated the Sheldon character plus, he can still pursue other roles, it's not taking all his time. 

Anyone in the show was making good money and if they wanted to they could have started their own production co. or pursue other roles ...etc.. I'm sure anyone who worked on TBBT is not now eating at their local soup kitchens.

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7 hours ago, shell said:

But all it comes down to is that he didn't want to continue starring in TBBT. It was Chuck Lorres' decision to end the show. It wasn't Jim Parsons that stated the show will now end.

Effectively, yes, it was.  Chuck had already told the cast the show would end if any of Jim, Kaley, or Johnny had decided to leave. I can't comment about anyone else, but I would think it would have continued if any of the others  had decided to leave, with the possible exception of Mayim.  Jim knew that his leaving would cause the show to end.  

That said, I don't begrudge Jim the decision to leave.   Twelve years is a long time to run the same character.  As to whether all the stories had been told, Jim wasn't a writer on the show.  He has said many time that he couldn't come up with the stories that the writers come up with, so saying there were no more stories is just him finding a way to justify his leaving.  He didn't need to do that.  He has mentioned  quite a few personal reasons for leaving, which was justification enough.  

There are no current plans for a reunion  It's going to be five to ten years, at least, and it may not even be on broadcast by that time.  

 

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5 hours ago, Tensor said:

Effectively, yes, it was.  Chuck had already told the cast the show would end if any of Jim, Kaley, or Johnny had decided to leave. I can't comment about anyone else, but I would think it would have continued if any of the others  had decided to leave, with the possible exception of Mayim.  Jim knew that his leaving would cause the show to end.  

That said, I don't begrudge Jim the decision to leave.   Twelve years is a long time to run the same character.  As to whether all the stories had been told, Jim wasn't a writer on the show.  He has said many time that he couldn't come up with the stories that the writers come up with, so saying there were no more stories is just him finding a way to justify his leaving.  He didn't need to do that.  He has mentioned  quite a few personal reasons for leaving, which was justification enough.  

There are no current plans for a reunion  It's going to be five to ten years, at least, and it may not even be on broadcast by that time.  

 

He could not help what CL's response would be. He is not responsible for CL's responses 

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3 hours ago, shell said:

He could not help what CL's response would be. He is not responsible for CL's responses 

Sorry, it was not a response. If Lorre had made the decision to end the show, after Jim made his decision, that would be a response. However, Lorre had made it clear, before hand, that if any of Jim, Johnny, or Kaley left the show, the show would end. So,  Jim was well aware by leaving the show, the show would end.

jim certainly had valid personal reasons for leaving, and no one can begrudge him that. But, that doesn’t change the fact that he knew if he left, that would trigger the end of the show. 

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41 minutes ago, Tensor said:

Sorry, it was not a response. If Lorre had made the decision to end the show, after Jim made his decision, that would be a response. However, Lorre had made it clear, before hand, that if any of Jim, Johnny, or Kaley left the show, the show would end. So,  Jim was well aware by leaving the show, the show would end.

jim certainly had valid personal reasons for leaving, and no one can begrudge him that. But, that doesn’t change the fact that he knew if he left, that would trigger the end of the show. 

I do not agree. Jim is responsible for Jim's actions, not CL's. It was not written in stone--it was not a law. The contracts had not even been written up, they were not even offered another season at the time of his decision.  

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18 minutes ago, shell said:

I do not agree. Jim is responsible for Jim's actions, not CL's. It was not written in stone--it was not a law. The contracts had not even been written up, they were not even offered another season at the time of his decision.  

Which has nothing to do with the fact that Jim was well aware that his action, of leaving the show, would trigger the show’s ending.  Jim may well be only responsible for his actions, but he was aware of the consequences of his actions, before making his decision. 

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1 minute ago, Tensor said:

Which has nothing to do with the fact that Jim was well aware that his action, of leaving the show, would trigger the show’s ending.  Jim may well be only responsible for his actions, but he was aware of the consequences of his actions, before making his decision. 

I'll just chalk this up to the fact that I will never agree with you on this. It may well have been over before he even claimed his decision , etc...

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3 minutes ago, shell said:

I'll just chalk this up to the fact that I will never agree with you on this. It may well have been over before he even claimed his decision , etc...

Look, all we can go by, is what is actually known. Prior to Jim’s announcement, Lorre had stated the show would not go on if Johnny, Kaley or Jim left.  We also now know, from Kaley, that Johnny and Kaley were looking toward, and expected a 13th season.  Jim, knowing what would happen if he left, made a valid personal decision to leave the show,  effectively ending the show. 
I’m not  condemning Jim for leaving, because after 12 years there are all sorts of valid personal reasons for leaving. Those facts are out there.  To deny his leaving ended the show, or conversely, to condemn Jim for a valid personal decision is simply ignoring those facts. 

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