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1203 'The Procreation Calculation' (October 4)

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27 minutes ago, bfm said:

I see diverse comments, both on Twitter abd Facebook. I don't see a very clear opinion.

There are those who praise this representation of a woman who does not want kids. Most of them are women who chose not to have kids.

There are those who think Penny is being unfair to Leonard and that he should leave her and find a woman who will be better for him and have kids with him.

There are those who feel bad for Leonard, some of them say he has done too much for her.

There are those who are just sad about it.

I read the angry ones and the sad ones too. I think these are some normal reactions of this episode. 

But my point was the praising ones who are thinking Penny is their post girl now is new to the fandom. Before this episode, I haven't read anything related, I haven't read anything like "Penny should not to have kids, because she could be a representative of childless community". Like I said before, people either didn't care about this or hoped to see her baby. Not like this. 

To quote Penny herself: "If it ain't broke..."

TPTB didn't have to be in this pickle, but they chose to be, I just don't understand why.

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25 minutes ago, KripkeRules said:

I read the angry ones and the sad ones too. I think these are some normal reactions of this episode. 

But my point was the praising ones who are thinking Penny is their post girl now is new to the fandom. Before this episode, I haven't read anything related, I haven't read anything like "Penny should not to have kids, because she could be a representative of childless community". Like I said before, people either didn't care about this or hoped to see her baby. Not like this. 

To quote Penny herself: "If it ain't broke..."

TPTB didn't have to be in this pickle, but they chose to be, I just don't understand why.

I think Amy and Bernadette could of been more representative  of the childless community. Penny as a representative is kind of  like Trump as the representative for the Me Too Movement.

Edited by Chrismo
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1 hour ago, bfm said:

I see diverse comments, both on Twitter abd Facebook. I don't see a very clear opinion.

There are those who praise this representation of a woman who does not want kids. Most of them are women who chose not to have kids.

There are those who think Penny is being unfair to Leonard and that he should leave her and find a woman who will be better for him and have kids with him.

There are those who feel bad for Leonard, some of them say he has done too much for her.

There are those who are just sad about it.

I guess a little of each of the above is in my opinion on the subject!

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51 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

I think Amy and Bernadette could of been more representative  of the childless community. Penny as a representative is kind of  like Trump as the representative for the Me Too Movement.

Bernie was the perfect one, because Amy has stated several times about the kids thing, she was like Leonard regarding this issue. But Bernie's ship had sailed, so not gonna happen.

Which brings my confusion here: Why bring this sensitive topic into the show in the first place?  Penny could have a job storyline throughout the final season, then in the end, Lenny can have a baby, so both sides, as in "People who don't want to see another pregnancy" AND "people who want a Lenny baby" could be happy in the end, personally I'd love this path, TBH. 

Bring this topic into the show sure complicated things, and they didn't have to. Oh, well. 

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Stunise?......Denart, surely?

 

Did not like the episode one bit.

The writers seem to be setting up an 'incompatibility' plot with Leonard and Penny's characters - to what end I am not sure; but it would give the show a darker end if Lenny were to break up. Penny also seemed much more forthright and aggressive with Bernadette and Amy

Denise can do better than Stuart - not a believable storyline.

Howard and Bernadette were just silly - although Howards concern for Raj was well written and came over as genuine thanks to Simon's great acting.

Raj and Anu? Not in a million years......run far, run fast my son. Raj can do way better than this......and the character deserves better than this.

Nice to see Sheldon and Amy sidelined a bit; but given their marriage - isn't the storyline a bit of a dead end now?

FWIW.......I can see the beginnings of how the show is moving towards the end.........I wonder if there will be any big surprises en route?

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The Lash. While I disagree with a some of what you said you do make some interesting points.

1. The writers have been working the incompatible storyline for years with Lenny.

2. I don’t think Denise is going to be on long enough that it matters if she can do better 

3. Howard part in regards to Raj was very good

4. Raj and Anu, I agree he should run. Does he deserve better? Maybe. JMO he probably should be single.

5. I agree. the Shamy ship has sailed 

6. As to surprises? If not it is going to be a long season 

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33 minutes ago, The Lash said:

Stunise?......Denart, surely?

 

Did not like the episode one bit.

The writers seem to be setting up an 'incompatibility' plot with Leonard and Penny's characters - to what end I am not sure; but it would give the show a darker end if Lenny were to break up. Penny also seemed much more forthright and aggressive with Bernadette and Amy

Denise can do better than Stuart - not a believable storyline.

Howard and Bernadette were just silly - although Howards concern for Raj was well written and came over as genuine thanks to Simon's great acting.

Raj and Anu? Not in a million years......run far, run fast my son. Raj can do way better than this......and the character deserves better than this.

Nice to see Sheldon and Amy sidelined a bit; but given their marriage - isn't the storyline a bit of a dead end now?

FWIW.......I can see the beginnings of how the show is moving towards the end.........I wonder if there will be any big surprises en route?

Tbf they’ve done the “incompatibility” plot several times with Lenny through out the series. I don’t see how this is any different. Just kids is more elevated than anything previously. I guess the alternative was. Penny tells Leonard she wants kids. Than they drop a bombshell couple episodes before the finale. That she lied. This way it’s out in the open. And they can attempt to move forward together. Leonard seemed upset. But not enough to consider ending their relationship. 

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7 hours ago, joyceraye said:

In Penny's reaction to Leonard's first proposal she was sarcastic about looking for a house near good schools. She also said in the murder mystery game that she didn't intend to put that body through three kids. I must admit I didn't take those lines seriously then. Perhaps, on reflection, it was a case of 'Many a true word is spoken in jest.' What did seem strange to me at the time was the brief exchange in 4A after celebrating Bernadette's pregnancy. I found it unbelievable that the subject had never been raised before, considering all the years they'd been courting and that they were engaged for a year. ( I did wonder where it was going and whether the writers were planting a seed for a future storyline. ) When Penny said she was waiting long enough to  prove she wasn't pregnant before arranging her wedding was the time to mention she had misgivings. Possibly she thought she'd want children later, but now finds she's more in doubt than ever. What beats me is that her family is no more dysfunctional than anybody else's so there seems no reason for not wanting to start one of her own.

Some people just don't have the desire. My brother and sister in-law have been married for 25 years. They don't have kids. My brother has never had the desire. They work hard, they travel and are extremely happy. Not everybody has the urge or temperament. It is that simple.

7 hours ago, joyceraye said:

In Penny's reaction to Leonard's first proposal she was sarcastic about looking for a house near good schools. She also said in the murder mystery game that she didn't intend to put that body through three kids. I must admit I didn't take those lines seriously then. Perhaps, on reflection, it was a case of 'Many a true word is spoken in jest.' What did seem strange to me at the time was the brief exchange in 4A after celebrating Bernadette's pregnancy. I found it unbelievable that the subject had never been raised before, considering all the years they'd been courting and that they were engaged for a year. ( I did wonder where it was going and whether the writers were planting a seed for a future storyline. ) When Penny said she was waiting long enough to  prove she wasn't pregnant before arranging her wedding was the time to mention she had misgivings. Possibly she thought she'd want children later, but now finds she's more in doubt than ever. What beats me is that her family is no more dysfunctional than anybody else's so there seems no reason for not wanting to start one of her own.

I agree with you Johnny! 100%

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5 hours ago, Strawberry PopTart Fan said:

I'm shipping Stunise:danced:

Love Stunise!

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56 minutes ago, Sah said:

What beats me is that her family is no more dysfunctional than anybody else's so there seems no reason for not wanting to start one of her own

A brother in prison, a mom who smoked pot when she was pregnant with her kids, and a family with an extensive history of teenage/out-of-wedlock pregnancies is no more dysfunctional than anybody else? I have to disagree with that one. 

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Big Bang Theory Recap: Is Leonard and Penny's Marriage in Trouble?
tvline.com

Wow. This is the first article since, well, light years? (LOL) by not mentioning Sheldon and Amy at all. This is really hysterical, oops historical! 😁

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15 hours ago, KripkeRules said:

I read the angry ones and the sad ones too. I think these are some normal reactions of this episode. 

But my point was the praising ones who are thinking Penny is their post girl now is new to the fandom. Before this episode, I haven't read anything related, I haven't read anything like "Penny should not to have kids, because she could be a representative of childless community". Like I said before, people either didn't care about this or hoped to see her baby. Not like this. 

To quote Penny herself: "If it ain't broke..."

TPTB didn't have to be in this pickle, but they chose to be, I just don't understand why.

Actually I've seen one letter from a childless womem community asking for this. At the time I thought TPTB wouldn't do it because Penny wants kids and it doesn't fit the characters and wanted them to please not sacrifice their character just putting this on her when it doesn't fit just so they can satisfy some group (while upsetting some, potentially many, of their fans). And look at what they did.

I totally agree I do not understand why they put themselves there. It's a lose-lose situation. Going the no kids route, which I think is the way they're going, they really upset some of the fans. If they change it it will be a disservice to those who IRL don't want kids. At the very least they could be much more gentle about it and have her say she is not sure about it without becoming the voice of not wanting kids in front of Bernadette who in a very mean way gave voice to the arguments that always annoy these women. This way it makes it really hard to change. But maybe they don't want to and it's just "screw fans we're doing this".

13 hours ago, KripkeRules said:

Bernie was the perfect one, because Amy has stated several times about the kids thing, she was like Leonard regarding this issue. But Bernie's ship had sailed, so not gonna happen.

Which brings my confusion here: Why bring this sensitive topic into the show in the first place?  Penny could have a job storyline throughout the final season, then in the end, Lenny can have a baby, so both sides, as in "People who don't want to see another pregnancy" AND "people who want a Lenny baby" could be happy in the end, personally I'd love this path, TBH. 

Bring this topic into the show sure complicated things, and they didn't have to. Oh, well. 

Totally agree

12 hours ago, Kev0821 said:

Notice she writes "Penny and Leonard coming to terms with the fact that Penny doesn't want kids"

Yeah I have no hoped for a change there

Edited by bfm
typo
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6 hours ago, DaisyJane said:

A brother in prison, a mom who smoked pot when she was pregnant with her kids, and a family with an extensive history of teenage/out-of-wedlock pregnancies is no more dysfunctional than anybody else? I have to disagree with that one. 

That is not my quote that you are responding to...

 

 

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1 hour ago, bfm said:

Notice she writes "Penny and Leonard coming to terms with the fact that Penny doesn't want kids"

Yeah I have no hoped for a change there

Take it from someone who's been following Mayim for years. If she said that, then you're in luck, 'cause she's almost never right with her analyses/predictions and it's most likely that the opposite will happen. 

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It funny how it’s all about Penny’s and what she wants and if she doesn’t want kids it's her prerogative. Leonard should put up or shut the hell up. Just like the writers, and the other characters that take pleasure in putting Leonard down at every opportunity, because his opinion is mute and his happiness doesn’t count, as long as Penny is happy, it all good, Penny has mind up her mind that she doesn’t want kids, that’s fine, but like most have said they should have discussed it before they got married because now you have one person in the marriage that may not be happy, the other thinking everything is good. This is not healthy. This is tptb making up shit, just like the boat kiss. Why didn’t Penny reveal her worries when on their way to Vegas? Remember, no surprises and regrets.

P. “And you know what the best part is? We took our time. I mean, we met, we were friends for a couple years, then we got together, and then we got untogether, then we worked out all our problems, and now we know everything abou1t each other, we can just go forward with no surprises and no regrets.”

L. “Right.”
Funny how kids were not mentioned in those discussions. Oh yeah, another  BS pulled out their arses.
Leonard deserves abit of happiness too.


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16 hours ago, bfm said:

I know that... But with Robin Sherbatsky (HIMYM) it becomes ironic...

Don't think I ever watched an entire episode of HIMYM. Apart from this forum I don't really recall it ever coming up in conversation. It's not like the old days when everyone had seen the same stuff on TV.

When I was a kid on the other hand virtually everyone I went to school with was familiar with that Bat Man series. All the kids talked about it frequently. My 20 year is familiar enough to scoff at it.

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6 minutes ago, Tonstar17 said:

It funny how it’s all about Penny’s and what she wants and if she doesn’t want kids it's her prerogative. Leonard should put up or shut the hell up. Just like the writers, and the other characters that take pleasure in putting Leonard down at every opportunity, because his opinion is mute and his happiness doesn’t count, as long as Penny is happy, it all good, Penny has mind up her mind that she doesn’t want kids, that’s fine, but like most have said they should have discussed it before they got married because now you have one person in the marriage that may not be happy, the other thinking everything is good. This is not healthy. This is tptb making up shit, just like the boat kiss. Why didn’t Penny reveal her worries when on their way to Vegas? Remember, no surprises and regrets.

P. “And you know what the best part is? We took our time. I mean, we met, we were friends for a couple years, then we got together, and then we got untogether, then we worked out all our problems, and now we know everything abou1t each other, we can just go forward with no surprises and no regrets.”

L. “Right.”
Funny how kids were not mentioned in those discussions. Oh yeah, another  BS pulled out their arses.
Leonard deserves abit of happiness too.


Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
 

Well he can't force her into having kids and I really don't think he wants to do that. His choices are to stay with her and accept not having kids or divorce her and get with someone else aand have kids with her (or co-parent with another woman if Penny agrees to that).

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7 minutes ago, bfm said:

Well he can't force her into having kids and I really don't think he wants to do that. His choices are to stay with her and accept not having kids or divorce her and get with someone else aand have kids with her (or co-parent with another woman if Penny agrees to that).

or wait around until she changes her mind. Given his childhood I'd be surprised if he was all that keen on having kids himself. Seems to me he wanted Penny without conditions. It seemed to me his thoughts about kids was mostly an assumption.

Edited by djsurrey
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41 minutes ago, djsurrey said:

or wait around until she changes her mind. Given his childhood I'd be surprised if he was all that keen on having kids himself. Seems to me he wanted Penny without conditions. It seemed to me his thoughts about kids was mostly an assumption.

Maybe. If so it may be easiet for him to come to accept not having kids but being with Penny as he seems to want to do in this episode.

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Well he can't force her into having kids and I really don't think he wants to do that. His choices are to stay with her and accept not having kids or divorce her and get with someone else aand have kids with her (or co-parent with another woman if Penny agrees to that).
Well it seems to me Leonard had no choice in the matter anyway. He never does with Penny. He cant force her to have kids, that will be wrong, but Penny not telling him how she feels about kids until now is also wrong. I just cant see how their marriage will last when they both want different things. I guess it's not RL so doesn't matter anyway. Tptb can make up shit as they go along.

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2 hours ago, nusspot said:

Take it from someone who's been following Mayim for years. If she said that, then you're in luck, 'cause she's almost never right with her analyses/predictions and it's most likely that the opposite will happen. 

Well, in the original version of the article (it has been since then corrected) she mixed up this episode with the Tam one; plus, she found that creepy breastfeeding joke funny so...yeah, I think chances are she has not clear idea of what is going on on the show, LOL!

Edited by mirs1
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6 hours ago, bfm said:

It's a lose-lose situation. Going the no kids route, which I think is the way they're going, they really upset some of the fans

I think that's the way they are going too, but I haven't really seen droves of people accepting that. Most people I have talked to seem to be hanging on thinking that's not really the way it's going to go. They still expect to get what they want in the end. My intuition is no, but they are adamant that all this means nothing and they can't lose. We'll see.

 

4 hours ago, djsurrey said:

My 20 year is familiar enough to scoff at it.

That makes me laugh. All of my kids love it. We have the DVD box set. But only one of my four is still in her 20's.

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