episodes 1203 'The Procreation Calculation' (October 4)

[joyceraye]

9 minutes ago, Jonny said:

How was it not believable? 

It's going to take more than a 'Yeah, Sure' to convince me she definitely 100% wanted kids.  Even if back then she was open to the idea of having children, well people and priorities do change.

I find it believable that she might have changed her mind.

In Penny's reaction to Leonard's first proposal she was sarcastic about looking for a house near good schools. She also said in the murder mystery game that she didn't intend to put that body through three kids. I must admit I didn't take those lines seriously then. Perhaps, on reflection, it was a case of 'Many a true word is spoken in jest.' What did seem strange to me at the time was the brief exchange in 4A after celebrating Bernadette's pregnancy. I found it unbelievable that the subject had never been raised before, considering all the years they'd been courting and that they were engaged for a year. ( I did wonder where it was going and whether the writers were planting a seed for a future storyline. ) When Penny said she was waiting long enough to  prove she wasn't pregnant before arranging her wedding was the time to mention she had misgivings. Possibly she thought she'd want children later, but now finds she's more in doubt than ever. What beats me is that her family is no more dysfunctional than anybody else's so there seems no reason for not wanting to start one of her own.

[April]

Much has been said about the Lenny plot so I'll try to keep it short: I don't think it's totally out of character for Penny to not want kids as I don't interpret her former "yeah, sure someday" stance as a particularly strong wish to actually have them. Some people suddenly come to the realisation they want kids, and some that they don't. It happens. I don't think she deceived Leonard or anything, just that at this point it was clear to her kids are a NO. Maybe her opinion will change, maybe it won't, but I guess either way it might end a bit messy cause either you offend people who want Penny to be a spokesperson for the childless crowd or you piss off fans who want those s&b babies. Oh well.

I found Leonard's initial freak out surprisingly satisfying cause I feared they would just let him have a too small reaction. (I mean, this is the guy who already picked names and probably dreamed up a future with their 2.5 kids and white picket fence so...) I'm not sure I buy him being fine with not having kids after the stunt with Penny's dad - not just calling him but also the way he ran off which looked like he was hoping daddy would change Penny's mind. But maybe that's just me.

Gotta agree with @Jonny that their friends' reactions were all a bit baffling. Bernie was pretty harsh and she could have been the most understanding seeing where she came from. Shamy were just so OOC for no reason that it took me right out of the episode. WTF was that??!?

I did find that I like the Raj and Anu part more than I thought I would. I don't have a problem with the premise of arranging a wedding. Sure, it's a bit short and quick because it's a sitcom and we don't have more seasons to take it slow so I'm okay with cutting corners. I thought the two were cure and I feel Anu is willing to entertain Raj's romantic side. She sees the potential in him and I feel she'd also be able to whip him into shape if necessary cause we all know Raj's not-so-nice side. So yeah, it could work out. I'm also not sure I want this to fail cause it would be just another failed relationship and it's getting tiresome. Heck, at this point it would be refreshing to see Raj in a relationship where he's really trying to make this work.

Of course the highlight of the episode was Stuart and Denise getting it on to Smooth Operator and poor Howardette suffering a little. hahahahha

[bfm]

28 minutes ago, Jonny said:

You can't drag out episodes if she just 'feels' that way.

Look I guess they could have gone in a different direction, for example using her career as a reason for not wanting to start a family right now. But the writers instead went down the route of she simply doesn't feel like having children right now at this moment and honestly that's a good enough reason for me.  It would be fucking stupid to start a family if you deep down you don't want to start one at that moment, Bernadette is wrong there is no guarantee that when the child is born her feelings might change.

If they went with "right now" than it wouldn't be a quick change and I wouldn't have a problem with it. But they went with "at all".

28 minutes ago, April said:

Maybe her opinion will change, maybe it won't, but I guess either way it might end a bit messy cause either you offend people who want Penny to be a spokesperson for the childless crowd or you piss off fans who want those s&b babies. Oh well.

Exactly. A lose-lose situation that they wouldn't be in if they gave it more thought.

[joyceraye]

2 hours ago, Jonny said:

Not convinced this Raj/Anu, Rajanu? relationship is endgame.

He's marrying for the wrong reasons and I share Howard's concern. All his friends are married, Stuart is in a relationship with Denise that could go the distance so he's made a reactive move.  He's still an old romantic, if anyone is in the group it's him.  They don't seem to have much chemistry, though maybe I guess that's to be expected because they've only just met and it could develop or blossom into something further or deeper. My prediction remains that he won't go through with it.

Raj's usual reaction to meeting a woman is to start planning his wedding. It usually bodes ill. The difference is this time the woman knows what she's in for. 

[KripkeRules]

33 minutes ago, April said:

Maybe her opinion will change, maybe it won't, but I guess either way it might end a bit messy cause either you offend people who want Penny to be a spokesperson for the childless crowd or you piss off fans who want those s&b babies. Oh well.

This is so true.

What I don't understand is why TPTB "chose" to be in this pickle in the first place. Before this episode, I've never read any comments that "actively hoping Penny will not have kids", most of the related comments have been "she will have kids" or "I couldn't care less about this". 

But now?  I've seen a lot of comments that were praising Penny for not wanting to have kids and praising TBBT for creating this plot. Some people even wanted to print her line "Not everyone needs to have kids to be fulfilled" on T-shirts...LOL.

[vonmar]

(4 pictures)

http://www.barris.com/

[Chrismo]

1 hour ago, April said:

Much has been said about the Lenny plot so I'll try to keep it short: I don't think it's totally out of character for Penny to not want kids as I don't interpret her former "yeah, sure someday" stance as a particularly strong wish to actually have them. Some people suddenly come to the realisation they want kids, and some that they don't. It happens. I don't think she deceived Leonard or anything, just that at this point it was clear to her kids are a NO. Maybe her opinion will change, maybe it won't, but I guess either way it might end a bit messy cause either you offend people who want Penny to be a spokesperson for the childless crowd or you piss off fans who want those s&b babies. Oh well.

 

I'm not sure you want Penny as the spokesperson for the childless crowd

[Die Zimtzicke]

18 hours ago, Chrismo said:

She went to Bernadettes office to ask her to go to lunch. Also Penny knew she was in the wrong about deciding  she didn’t want to have kids without asking him. That’s why she rented the batmobile.

She rented the batmobile as a consolation prize. I have no faith at all that  Penny will think she's wrong and ever have kids. We'll see.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Die Zimtzicke

[chucky]

4 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

I have faith at all that  Penny will think she's wrong and ever have kids. We'll see.

Okay - Dokay

[Die Zimtzicke]

3 hours ago, Jonny said:

Howardette were the stars of the episode from a comedy perspective and when they were together in scenes and in their own storyline (more on what I thought when they were involved in the Penny and Raj storylines further below). I get a lot of joy watching Simon and Melissa act together, they are amazing.

Absolutely.

 

3 hours ago, Jonny said:

Penny clearly doesn't want them right now which is her prerogative and her right which has to be respected and maybe ultimately she doesn't want kids at all and again if that is the case that has to be respected as well.  It felt throughout the episode she was pressured from the opening scene of Howardette and the house becoming free next door to them to the end scene with Wyatt's phone call.  Leonard to be fair didn't put pressure on her in this episode, when I guess he could have.  He could have been more vociferous about his feelings in this one and yet he didn't.  I do think there are things to be admired about Penny's perspective and position on this, not everyone wants children at that particular moment or at all and if that's how they feel that should be respected.

YES!

 

3 hours ago, Jonny said:

Sheldon could have had a nice bromance moment with Leonard and they ruined it with gags about Sheldon enjoying how silent and quiet the car journey was? I mean really?! 

To me that was the most old school Sheldon I've seen in years and I loved it.

 

1 hour ago, spidergirl said:

▪marrying Raj when is so clear he wont be happy in these conditions.

I want to see where they go with this. I'm not convinced he won't be happy any more than I'm convinced he will. To me it's...

6 minutes ago, chucky said:

Okay - Dokay

I meant no faith of course. Can't type for anything on my new phone. Sorry. But I didn't want them anyway and never did. I'll be totally thrilled if it turns out I'm right.

[Chrismo]

1 hour ago, Jonny said:

You can't drag out episodes if she just 'feels' that way.

Look I guess they could have gone in a different direction, for example using her career as a reason for not wanting to start a family right now. But the writers instead went down the route of she simply doesn't feel like having children right now at this moment and honestly that's a good enough reason for me.  It would be fucking stupid to start a family if you deep down you don't want to start one at that moment, Bernadette is wrong there is no guarantee that when the child is born her feelings might change.

Her career is based on Bernadette. If she said her career that just too laughable. I don't disagree at this moment comment. As I said Bernadette was grasping for straws after complaining about her kids.

[chucky]

13 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Absolutely.

 

YES!

 

To me that was the most old school Sheldon I've seen in years and I loved it.

 

I want to see where they go with this. I'm not convinced he won't be happy any more than I'm convinced he will. To me it's...

I meant no faith of course. Can't type for anything on my new phone. Sorry. But I didn't want them anyway and never did. I'll be totally thrilled if it turns out I'm right.

I knew that, just having fun with ya! 

[Zephon75]

Well when i saw the promo for this episode i was not happy and was going to not watch the episode. But then after a while i thought maybe they showed that because things will get better later on....I was wrong. From the opening scene where we got one of those stupid he wore her down jokes which they think are funny but never have been. I honestly don't know what to say i still can't believe they did that, it was unnescarry and i think that's what annoyed me the most. If they didn't want to do a pregnancy story line for Penny and which  has been obvious for quite a while now. They should of just left it alone and ignored it like they've been ignoring fans who wanted  to see one all these years. But to have a storyline where Penny decides she doesn't want kids . Well that was just cruel to fans who liked the idea of Prenny one day  being preganant with those smart  and beautiful babies. But The scene where Penny starts the conversation with Leonard which makes Leonard get excited thinking that they might be having kids soon. But she turns around and tells him she doesn't want kids was  just mean to him .Then she says to  him don't be mad i mean come on, he had every right to be mad he was upset at having the thing he dreamed about having since the moment they met snatched away from him. But the worst thing by far was Leonard just giving up and accepting it is never going to happen. I will admit one thing though Penny's gift at the end was quite the surprise , and does show how much he means to her.

I hope the writers change there mind over having Penny not want kids.

 

 

Edited October 5, 2018 by Zephon75

[Die Zimtzicke]

10 minutes ago, chucky said:

I knew that, just having fun with ya! 

I got a new phone and a new van in the same week and nothing on either one is anything like my old one. It's made me ungodly crabby,.

 

2 minutes ago, Zephon75 said:

From the opening scene where we got one of those stupid he wore her down jokes which they think are funny but never have been.

They've been doing those all along so I was not surprised at all by it.

[chucky]

4 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

I got a new phone and a new van in the same week and nothing on either one is anything like my old one. It's made me ungodly crabby,.

 

They've been doing those all along so I was not surprised at all by it.

Me either. As if Howard or Raj has any room to talk. I mean Raj's longest running relationship is with Cinnamon! We know who will be dominant in Raj's newest attempt at a relationship!

[Die Zimtzicke]

1 minute ago, chucky said:

Me either. As if Howard or Raj has any room to talk. I mean Raj's longest running relationship is with Cinnamon! We know who will be dominant in Raj's newest attempt at a relationship!

What could get interesting with Raj is Anu's interest is finances. Especially if Raj has not straightened his out yet. I think we may see his parents again, individually, and that they will do anything to help get him married, maybe even settle his debts. I want to know if Anu knows where Raj is living, as well. There's so much they can do with this. I just hope as they get to know each other we see more chemistry between them.

[Strawberry PopTart Fan]

I'm shipping Stunise

[Chrismo]

3 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

What could get interesting with Raj is Anu's interest is finances. Especially if Raj has not straightened his out yet. I think we may see his parents again, individually, and that they will do anything to help get him married, maybe even settle his debts. I want to know if Anu knows where Raj is living, as well. There's so much they can do with this. I just hope as they get to know each other we see more chemistry between them.

I see a better chance of Penny pregnant than this relationship working.

[chucky]

1 minute ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

There's so much they can do with this.

But, do they have the time. They probably started too late. They could have started this marriage thing with Raj last year. But last year was wasted on the prep for and the shamy wedding! I guess TPTB was under the impression an extension of two more years was going to happen.

[Chrismo]

2 minutes ago, chucky said:

But, do they have the time. They probably started too late. They could have started this marriage thing with Raj last year. But last year was wasted on the prep for and the shamy wedding! I guess TPTB was under the impression an extension of two more years was going to happen.

Agreed. There was old Friends episode that had Monica dating a guy that the rest of the gang loved more than she did and she ended up breaking up with him. I eventually see Raj dumping her and the gang not understanding why.

[chucky]

20 minutes ago, Strawberry PopTart Fan said:

I'm shipping Stunise

Stunise?

[Strawberry PopTart Fan]

14 minutes ago, chucky said:

Stunise?

 

[Die Zimtzicke]

16 hours ago, chucky said:

Stunise?

Stuart and Denise.

Checked out facebook comments on this ep and they would probably make some of the Lenny fans here frantic. Of course the header of the post was:
Stuart wants love, Raj wants marriage, the Hofstadters might get a baby carriage! Stream the latest episode now!
So that was TOTALLY misleading as I see it.

Not feeling a lot of Anu love anywhere but I'm still willing to give it a shot., What screws up most of Raj's relationships is him taking them too seriously too soon. With that obstacle removed maybe it will work. The lack of chemistry is a problem but I still think that might get better.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Die Zimtzicke

[chucky]

5 minutes ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

Stuart and Denise.

Checked out facebook comments on this ep and they would probably make some of the Lenny fans here frantic. Of course the header of the post was:
Stuart wants love, Raj wants marriage, the Hofstadters might get a baby carriage! Stream the latest episode now!
So that was TOTALLY misleading as I see it.

Not feeling a lot of Anu love anywhere but I'm still willing to give it a hot., What screws up most of Raj's relationships is him taking them too seriously too soon. With that obstacle removed maybe it will work. The lack of chemistry is a problem but I still think that might get better.

We'll see. I have my money on Raj screwing up as usual!

[bfm]

2 hours ago, KripkeRules said:

This is so true.

What I don't understand is why TPTB "chose" to be in this pickle in the first place. Before this episode, I've never read any comments that "actively hoping Penny will not have kids", most of the related comments have been "she will have kids" or "I couldn't care less about this". 

But now?  I've seen a lot of comments that were praising Penny for not wanting to have kids and praising TBBT for creating this plot. Some people even wanted to print her line "Not everyone needs to have kids to be fulfilled" on T-shirts...LOL.

I see diverse comments, both on Twitter abd Facebook. I don't see a very clear opinion.

There are those who praise this representation of a woman who does not want kids. Most of them are women who chose not to have kids.

There are those who think Penny is being unfair to Leonard and that he should leave her and find a woman who will be better for him and have kids with him.

There are those who feel bad for Leonard, some of them say he has done too much for her.

There are those who are just sad about it.