episodes 1212 'The Propagation Proposition' (January 10)

[bfm]

51 minutes ago, veejay said:

I'm also on the verge of switching the program.

Sorry, Good Place joke

[veejay]

1 hour ago, bfm said:

Sorry, Good Place joke

I understand the two exclamation marks!

[Stephen Hawking]

On 12/27/2018 at 6:19 PM, Chrismo said:

I just googled her name Lindsey Kraft. There is no pictures from the episode.

Just search "The Big Bang Theory - Will You Be The Father? (S12E12)" on Youtube.

BTW. Do you not think this is another idea copied from Friends?

Edited January 11, 2019 by Stephen Hawking

[chucky]

What a nice episode! It was great seeing the great Dr, Cooper and Shamy regulated to second class status again!

[Die Zimtzicke]

It wasn't as bad as I feared. I like seeing Raj's dad (I always do) in a misguided way, but a definite way, standing up for Raj. I want to see Raj happy. I think it's his turn, especially since even Stuart has a girlfriend now that he seems to be getting along with. I'm glad Raj and Anu are going to give it another try. I think they were cute here and the most intriguing storyline on the episode. I love the way they actually get together and talk out their problems. They did it about sex, they did it about Raj wanting to do some of the wedding planning and they did it here...they just discuss their issues, and I think they often do it better than the other two married couples. Howard and Bernie played off each other perfectly. Zack was as dimwitted as ever and he wife wasn't much better. I hope, as someone suggested on another thread that Marissa just winds up pregnant after all so they can drop this whole thing and move on. I know this is a dangerous thing to say but I didn't like Penny much in this ep. She can be snarky and she can be cold but it seemed to me in this ep that it was more pronounced. And I saw no evidence in this ep that she was changing her mind about kids or even thinking about it. I didn't think she would but if she was going to, this would have been the ep to start working on that, and I just didn't see it.

[chucky]

1 hour ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

It wasn't as bad as I feared.

Totally agree. It could have been so much worse. Penny being OK with Leonard donating sperm was a bit of a shock! I thought she'd put up more of a fight than she did. Oh well we'll see what happens. This is not over yet!

[HeWolf]

The episode was okay. Not great. Not bad. There have been many better, and many a lot worse.

The girl's scene in the bar was just rehashing old territory. Penny centered and predictable. Silly comments from Amy concerning Penny that border on creepy. Bernadette lane changing from pleasant to snarky. Someone commented on how insulting it was for Bernadette to hint that Penny might cheat on Leonard and that Penny should have been insulted. Why? Penny makes no secret of her beliefs that she 'settled' for Leonard, and that he's lucky to have her. Why is it so hard to imagine she might want to spend time with someone she finds more 'her level'?

The gaming scene in 4A was okay. Also fairly derivative. Just a setting for mocking Raj.

The boat scene was fairly enjoyable. Zack is always fun and it appears he found a good match in his wife. Leonard and Penny were very believable and it's completely conceivable that they would be envious of the idiot that hits it big while they continue to work for a living. The idea that Leonard be their donor is not unthinkable. It is also believable that Leonard would be open to considering the idea. That he wouldn't do it if Penny objects is also very much in line with who he is. 

Raj and Anu provided some good scenes and some laughs. Kunal plays Raj very well and he was fun to watch in this episode.

As observed below, it might be a dangerous thing to say, but I'll do it. Quite often, Penny sucks. She's terrible. Vain, self-entitled, spoiled, narcissistic, and dismissive of others. Her good qualities are few and they seldom overcome her more abundant negative traits. She thinks the girls are 'lucky' to be her friend. She 'settled' for Leonard. She puts no effort into her marriage. Can't remember her husband's birthday, or their anniversary.  She lucked into a good, well paying, job that she doesn't appreciate. She was a bad waitress and didn't care. Penny? Boooooooooooo!!!

1 hour ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

I know this is a dangerous thing to say but I didn't like Penny much in this ep. She can be snarky and she can be cold but it seemed to me in this ep that it was more pronounced. And I saw no evidence in this ep that she was changing her mind about kids or even thinking about it. I didn't think she would but if she was going to, this would have been the ep to start working on that, and I just didn't see it.

 

14 minutes ago, chucky said:

Totally agree. It could have been so much worse. Penny being OK with Leonard donating sperm was a bit of a shock! I thought she'd put up more of a fight than she did. Oh well we'll see what happens. This is not over yet!

Why should she care? She unilaterally decided for both of them that they wouldn't have any children. No discussion. No explanation. Only question that should really matter is whether, or not, Leonard could do it and not expect to have something to do with the resulting offspring. I think he'd have a hard time with that.  

[SRAM]

5 minutes ago, HeWolf said:

Why is it so hard to imagine she might want to spend time with someone she finds more 'her level'.

Well because she is married now and that would be cheating on her husband.

7 minutes ago, HeWolf said:

As observed below, it might be a dangerous thing to say, but I'll do it. Quite often, Penny sucks. She's terrible. Vain, self-entitled, spoiled, narcissistic, and dismissive of others. Her good qualities are few and they seldom overcome her more abundant negative traits. She thinks the girls are 'lucky' to be her friend. She 'settled' for Leonard. She puts no effort into her marriage. Can't remember her husband's birthday, or their anniversary.  She lucked into a good, well paying, job that she doesn't appreciate. She was a bad waitress and didn't care. Penny? Boooooooooooo!!!

 

I have to somewhat agree with you here, sometimes Penny is written as her early self absorbed self, even though she has been married now for a couple of years, and it is hard to watch.  The ‘settled’ for Leonard comment has been said so much it has degraded the Lenny relationship in the show and her acting like Leonard and her friends are lucky to have her should have died about season 6, but there is still a part of it there even now in season 12.  I don’t see her trying very hard in the marriage either, and waiting to tell Leonard she didn’t want kids till a couple years after being married is just deceitful and selfish on her part.

[chucky]

4 minutes ago, SRAM said:

Well because she is married now and that would be cheating on her husband.

I have to somewhat agree with you here, sometimes Penny is written as her early self absorbed self, even though she has been married now for a couple of years, and it is hard to watch.  The ‘settled’ for Leonard comment has been said so much it has degraded the Lenny relationship in the show and her acting like Leonard and her friends are lucky to have her should have died about season 6, but there is still a part of it there even now in season 12.  I don’t see her trying very hard in the marriage either, and waiting to tell Leonard she didn’t want kids till a couple years after being married is just deceitful and selfish on her part.

There is some truth to what you said! Err, a lot of truth!!!

[veejay]

15 minutes ago, SRAM said:

Well because she is married now and that would be cheating on her husband.

I have to somewhat agree with you here, sometimes Penny is written as her early self absorbed self, even though she has been married now for a couple of years, and it is hard to watch.  The ‘settled’ for Leonard comment has been said so much it has degraded the Lenny relationship in the show and her acting like Leonard and her friends are lucky to have her should have died about season 6, but there is still a part of it there even now in season 12.  I don’t see her trying very hard in the marriage either, and waiting to tell Leonard she didn’t want kids till a couple years after being married is just deceitful and selfish on her part.

This is probably called character development (LOL). And yes, the writers are responsible for that. And yes, I give up trying to recognize some deeper meaning in their ideas. 💨

[chucky]

12 minutes ago, veejay said:

This is probably called character development (LOL). And yes, the writers are responsible for that. And yes, I give up trying to recognize some deeper meaning in their ideas. 💨

That is so very true!!!

[Mario D.]

2 hours ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

It wasn't as bad as I feared. I like seeing Raj's dad (I always do) in a misguided way, but a definite way, standing up for Raj. I want to see Raj happy. I think it's his turn, especially since even Stuart has a girlfriend now that he seems to be getting along with. I'm glad Raj and Anu are going to give it another try. I think they were cute here and the most intriguing storyline on the episode. I love the way they actually get together and talk out their problems. They did it about sex, they did it about Raj wanting to do some of the wedding planning and they did it here...they just discuss their issues, and I think they often do it better than the other two married couples. Howard and Bernie played off each other perfectly. Zack was as dimwitted as ever and he wife wasn't much better. I hope, as someone suggested on another thread that Marissa just winds up pregnant after all so they can drop this whole thing and move on. I know this is a dangerous thing to say but I didn't like Penny much in this ep. She can be snarky and she can be cold but it seemed to me in this ep that it was more pronounced. And I saw no evidence in this ep that she was changing her mind about kids or even thinking about it. I didn't think she would but if she was going to, this would have been the ep to start working on that, and I just didn't see it.

I think I can agree with most of what you commented.  I like seeing Raj's dad and I liked the way Raj and Anu settled their spat in the end.  Now, the Zach scene. I kind of have to agree with your analysis on Penny. As I said in the DT, what bothered me was in the tag scene when she came home and Leonard was in his conciliatory mode saying if she did not want him to be a sperm donor then he would not do it.  But when she came back out with that cup and said that Leonard did not have any say in her no baby declaration she couldn't object to his donation to Zach & Marissa.  What got me was that she was so cold and indifferent about it....it just gave me a bad vibe.   In a real life marriage would a spouse really think this is ok?  Especially with someone they know. I just cannot believe that Penny is ok with this and it will lead to her changing her mind on having kids.  Why else would they create this plot? To torture Lenny fans? They always create a hard road for them to travel 

[Chrismo]

5 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

I think I can agree with most of what you commented.  I like seeing Raj's dad and I liked the way Raj and Anu settled their spat in the end.  Now, the Zach scene. I kind of have to agree with your analysis on Penny. As I said in the DT, what bothered me was in the tag scene when she came home and Leonard was in his conciliatory mode saying if she did not want him to be a sperm donor then he would not do it.  But when she came back out with that cup and said that Leonard did not have any say in her no baby declaration she couldn't object to his donation to Zach & Marissa.  What got me was that she was so cold and indifferent about it....it just gave me a bad vibe.   In a real life marriage would a spouse really think this is ok?  Especially with someone they know. I just cannot believe that Penny is ok with this and it will lead to her changing her mind on having kids.  Why else would they create this plot? To torture Lenny fans? They always create a hard road for them to travel 

My biggest problem with the Lenny storyline is it seemed to skip the middle part. It was referred to  that Lenny argued. I believe from what was discussed  with the girls that Penny really didn’t want him to donate. Leonard offered the olive branch but to me,and I actually agree with Penny on this part, she had to say it was his decision unless she was prepared to change hers.

[chucky]

52 minutes ago, Chrismo said:

I actually agree with Penny on this part, she had to say it was his decision unless she was prepared to change hers.

Yep, she was stuck between the rock and a hard place.

[bfm]

I agree Penny came off quite cold and distant. The last scene was weird, I think the pacing was very off. Leonard said what he said and then Pennt just immediately goes to bring that cup. I can't decide whether that was what she intended to do when she came home or Leonard's words made her realize the way she just throw the no kids decision on him with no discussion, explanation or whatever, wasn't fair and she decided to try to even things out by letting him donate. Then when she gave him the cup it was so dry, I would expect at least a sigh or something, or looking down, especially after she was so angry about that earlier. The only thing that had some emotion there was when she said Zack and Marissa couldn't have made a better choice. Leonard, on the other hand, was full with emotion. I don't think this was Kaley's fault, but something about the pacing, direction and perhaps writing.

They can justify that saying she was holding in her feelings, but I think Penny would have been much more relatable if they showed some of her feelings (perhaps by showing her alone for a moment after her talk with her friends or after/before her talk with Leonard).

[Chrismo]

I know Zack and Marissa aren't the brightest bulbs but didn't they come off as a better married couple than Lenny?

[chucky]

1 hour ago, bfm said:

I agree Penny came off quite cold and distant. The last scene was weird, I think the pacing was very off. Leonard said what he said and then Pennt just immediately goes to bring that cup. I can't decide whether that was what she intended to do when she came home or Leonard's words made her realize the way she just throw the no kids decision on him with no discussion, explanation or whatever, wasn't fair and she decided to try to even things out by letting him donate. Then when she gave him the cup it was so dry, I would expect at least a sigh or something, or looking down, especially after she was so angry about that earlier. The only thing that had some emotion there was when she said Zack and Marissa couldn't have made a better choice. Leonard, on the other hand, was full with emotion. I don't think this was Kaley's fault, but something about the pacing, direction and perhaps writing.

They can justify that saying she was holding in her feelings, but I think Penny would have been much more relatable if they showed some of her feelings (perhaps by showing her alone for a moment after her talk with her friends or after/before her talk with Leonard).

Yeah! I've watched it twice and Ihave the same feelings!

[bfm]

1 hour ago, Chrismo said:

I know Zack and Marissa aren't the brightest bulbs but didn't they come off as a better married couple than Lenny?

Based on what? 2 minutes?

[Chrismo]

6 minutes ago, bfm said:

Based on what? 2 minutes?

It seemed obvious that they had a plan when Lenny came over. It was obvious Zack and Marissa talked about this. She repeated exactly what he told her and had total faith in Zack, Leonard walks in 3 inches shorter than her and glasses. What must she be thinking? She basically agreed to carry Leonard’s baby sight unseen compared to Penny’s sudden announcement she didn’t want kids

[Cereal Apist]

1 hour ago, Chrismo said:

It seemed obvious that they had a plan when Lenny came over. It was obvious Zack and Marissa talked about this. She repeated exactly what he told her and had total faith in Zack, Leonard walks in 3 inches shorter than her and glasses. What must she be thinking? She basically agreed to carry Leonard’s baby sight unseen compared to Penny’s sudden announcement she didn’t want kids

Does that make them a 'better' couple or Marissa a Stepford wife?

[chucky]

6 minutes ago, Cereal Apist said:

Does that make them a 'better' couple or Marissa a Stepford wife?

That's an interesting question.

[Chrismo]

20 minutes ago, Cereal Apist said:

Does that make them a 'better' couple or Marissa a Stepford wife?

IDK. I do know last night I would of preferred to be married to Marissa more than Penny

[Zephon75]

Well, i thought this episode was awful, I had no interest in the Raj/Anu plot but that wasn't the reason I think the episode was awful. First, we had that line from Amy after the got the champagne whee she says she's happily married but she will watch. Implying that Penny or Bernadette would do something for the guy who gave it to them. When Penny says they aren't going to do anything, Bernadette makes a dig at Penny which wasn't remotely funny. Also, Zack says he sold his company, but the company was never his, it was his fathers and he and his sister where vps.
Although even in this abomination of an episode thee where some nice scenes for Lenny like after Penny ask Leonard was he jealous and he says absolutely not he should be jealous of me because I have you. Penny reaction clearly showed she liked that answer. And then Leonard not getting what Penny was implying was adorable.

As for the car journey with Sheldon and his reaction everytime Leonard said something positive about himself. Was annoying just because Sheldon doesn't think so doesn't make him right if anything it made him look like a jerk.

The boat scene was well cute and very very weird, Penny's reaction after he said he didn't know what o ay. Pretty much gave away that she didn't want him to do it. The, of course, we got the girls talking about it and Penny saying they had g=fight over it. And Leonard said to if she doesn't want his baby why shouldn't some else be able too, that was actually surprising to hear that Leonard would say that to her.

I will say this Sheldon actually had a point about the emotional toll it could have of them.

The last conversation between Leonard and Penny, has Leonard telling Penny he won't do it if she doesn't want him too. Then Penny makes the gesture implying he can do it if he wants. Yet she doesn't know if she's okay with it. But because she didn't give him a say when she told him she didn't want kids. She thinks she doesn't have to have a say in this. Then, of course, we where left not knowing what he was actually going to do which was a crappy thing to do.

So all in all I thought the episode was just weird and a load of bollocks

[3ku11]

Yeah it seems Penny is always the bad wolf. And people critique her flaws and short comings in her relationship with Leonard. But it seems Leonard gets off scott free from some fans. He only cheated on her, and lied about it for 2 years apparently. But I Won't go down that road again. We can agree or disagree about the quality of the storytelling and writing in regards to the whole baby topic. But Penny has no obligation to give Leonard a child. This idea she has to change her mind. She doesen't. She has no obligation too. Now it is up to Leonard to decide if he is okay with that, and nothing seems to suggest he is not. First it seems we were annoyed Penny has a problem with Leonard wanting to donate his Sperm. As she never consulted with Leonard. Now the sense I Am getting is oh she should be having a say. As it is I Don't think this story arch is over. 

[Chrismo]

9 minutes ago, Zephon75 said:

Well, i thought this episode was awful, I had no interest in the Raj/Anu plot but that wasn't the reason I think the episode was awful. First, we had that line from Amy after the got the champagne whee she says she's happily married but she will watch. Implying that Penny or Bernadette would do something for the guy who gave it to them. When Penny says they aren't going to do anything, Bernadette makes a dig at Penny which wasn't remotely funny. Also, Zack says he sold his company, but the company was never his, it was his fathers and he and his sister where vps.
Although even in this abomination of an episode thee where some nice scenes for Lenny like after Penny ask Leonard was he jealous and he says absolutely not he should be jealous of me because I have you. Penny reaction clearly showed she liked that answer. And then Leonard not getting what Penny was implying was adorable.

As for the car journey with Sheldon and his reaction everytime Leonard said something positive about himself. Was annoying just because Sheldon doesn't think so doesn't make him right if anything it made him look like a jerk.

The boat scene was well cute and very very weird, Penny's reaction after he said he didn't know what o ay. Pretty much gave away that she didn't want him to do it. The, of course, we got the girls talking about it and Penny saying they had g=fight over it. And Leonard said to if she doesn't want his baby why shouldn't some else be able too, that was actually surprising to hear that Leonard would say that to her.

I will say this Sheldon actually had a point about the emotional toll it could have of them.

The last conversation between Leonard and Penny, has Leonard telling Penny he won't do it if she doesn't want him too. Then Penny makes the gesture implying he can do it if he wants. Yet she doesn't know if she's okay with it. But because she didn't give him a say when she told him she didn't want kids. She thinks she doesn't have to have a say in this. Then, of course, we where left not knowing what he was actually going to do which was a crappy thing to do.

So all in all I thought the episode was just weird and a load of bollocks

After reading your post I came to the conclusion though it can’t happen not every cast member was needed in this episode. It seems to me there was no purpose for Howdette and Amy especially A and B in the Lenny part. Like you I really don’t care about the Raj storyline and reviewers liking it but I digress. I was able to handle Sheldon in the Lenny storyline but to me Lenny Zack and Marissa were the only ones needed. I’m not sure it would of made the episode better for you but it couldn’t of made it worse