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Molecules

Episodic Errors

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20 hours ago, Molecules said:

We can debate fictitious germs. I have had 2 years of pathogenic and diagnostic microbiology, a year of microbiology, and a semester of cytology,

And so?  This study, specifically states that of the 16 men in  a particular subgroup, the incubation time was from 1-3 days (See the Dynamics of Symptoms section).  Also, note the variation of symptom scores, indicating differing onsets of the various symptoms.  Can you point out, what in this study is in error, as this directly refutes your contention that the exposure is a constant in different humans?  

There is also This study,  which uses source, unsourced, and observational data.  Each are listed separately, but the data (In table 3 and discussed in the influenza section under results also give a 1-4 day incubation period, with a mean of 2 days.  Can you point out what is in error in this particular study, that  can show your contention of identical incubation periods in different humans?  

 

20 hours ago, Molecules said:

I think we can all agree that it is more likely than not, that Penny and Sheldon were exposed to a pathogen, in common, at the same time, and therefore began symptoms at the same time.

I don't.  Until you can provide the citations, for your contention of identical incubation periods, I'll disagree.  I have several other studies I can provide, if needed, but I'll await your refutations, with citations.  

 

Quote

Season4 Episode 2. Sheldon states that Amy will not dress up as Wonder Woman, because Amy is not the free spirit he is, yet in  later seasons dresses in various costumes.

Yes, and at that time, she was still a proto Sheldon, and hadn't opened up like she did later.  

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On 3/18/2019 at 10:27 PM, Tensor said:

This is simply wrong.   Incubation for the flu virus, in humans, can vary from one to four days, while the mean is two days.   It can vary based on method of transmission (some methods are more efficient, for example, in large droplet aerosols), number of viruses received (since growth is exponential, doubling or more,  the number received can theoretically cut the symptom onset time in half).  It can also vary depending on a persons immune system.  In the case of the flu, if one has prior antibodies, that are close enough to the current virus, or a immune system that is operating at peak efficiency, that person could be more efficient in fighting the virus, lengthening the incubation period, without stopping it.  

So, Penny could easily have come into contact with a small number of viral particles, have the number grow, and then passed on a greater number of viral particles to Sheldon, causing a quicker onset for Sheldon.   

We do not have enough information to be able to diagnose. A common cold, in general, might be more likely, than the flu. Penny had sym[tom onset at almost the exact same time as Sheldon. They likely had simultaneous exposure to the pathogen. Probably, sadly, the only simultaneous experience Sheldon and Penny will ever share together!  N ugh, n ugh. Wink, wink. Say no more.

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4 hours ago, Molecules said:

We do not have enough information to be able to diagnose. A common cold, in general, might be more likely, than the flu.

The common cold rarely involves vomiting and/or chills.  By the symptoms shown in the show, it's if far more likely to be the flu, rather than the common cold.  

 

4 hours ago, Molecules said:

 Penny had sym[tom onset at almost the exact same time as Sheldon. They likely had simultaneous exposure to the pathogen.

So you say, yet you haven't provided any support for your contention, nor offered any refutation to the papers I provided, that show your contention is wrong.  Do you have refutations to those papers I provided or any support for your contention, other than your say so?  

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16 hours ago, Tensor said:

The common cold rarely involves vomiting and/or chills.  By the symptoms shown in the show, it's if far more likely to be the flu, rather than the common cold.  

 

So you say, yet you haven't provided any support for your contention, nor offered any refutation to the papers I provided, that show your contention is wrong.  Do you have refutations to those papers I provided or any support for your contention, other than your say so?  

What papers to which are you referring? Are you citing peer reviewed published journal articles? Please inform me. Transmission of a pathogen occurs before the immune system is fully in play. If the immune system was in play no pathogen would be passed, because the immune system would stop the germ before transmission would be possible. Let's take your argument that the germ was the flu. Wouldn't Sheldon the Germophobe have gotten the flu shot, and have Tamaflu ( or other antiviral pills) on hand? Sheldon takes a course of antibiotics when Dr Plimpton was about to visit. He has a plethora of topicals to 'ditch that itch'.These are all speculations . We have no facts to even postulate a differential diagnosis. In general, it is most likely the common cold contracted simultaneously.

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7 hours ago, Molecules said:

What papers to which are you referring? Are you citing peer reviewed published journal articles? Please inform me.

The two I was referring to, are in this post, which was my post prior to the one you quoted.  It's four posts up from this one.   You'll note the two articles I mention the first is from the American Journal of Epidemiology and the second was from The Lancet, Infectious Diseases, and yes, both are Peer-reviewed and both are have quite a few citations.   

 

7 hours ago, Molecules said:

 Transmission of a pathogen occurs before the immune system is fully in play. If the immune system was in play no pathogen would be passed, because the immune system would stop the germ before transmission would be possible. 

I never claimed otherwise.  My contention is that incubation times for the two was different.  It could be due to several different factors, one being the immune system.  

 

7 hours ago, Molecules said:

 Wouldn't Sheldon the Germophobe have gotten the flu shot, and have Tamaflu ( or other antiviral pills) on hand? Sheldon takes a course of antibiotics when Dr Plimpton was about to visit. He has a plethora of topicals to 'ditch that itch'.These are all speculations .

When he got sick, after Penny returned from Nebraska, it was only after she mentioned she was around sick people that he started taking action (not that covering his mouth with his shirt was all that effective).   If he didn't know Penny had been infected or had any obvious symptoms, he would not have taken any precautions.  

 

7 hours ago, Molecules said:

We have no facts to even postulate a differential diagnosis. In general, it is most likely the common cold contracted simultaneously.

Well, then, if you have no facts to postulate a differential diagnoses, why claim they had to have been infected simultaneously, because they were exposed simultaneously?  

And I still don't see how both of them end up vomiting with the common cold when vomiting is rare for an adult with a cold.  

Just as a note, my objection was your claim that they had to have been exposed simultaneously, for their symptoms to occur simultaneously.  

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11 hours ago, Tensor said:

 

The two I was referring to, are in this post, which was my post prior to the one you quoted.  It's four posts up from this one.   You'll note the two articles I mention the first is from the American Journal of Epidemiology and the second was from The Lancet, Infectious Diseases, and yes, both are Peer-reviewed and both are have quite a few citations.   

 

I never claimed otherwise.  My contention is that incubation times for the two was different.  It could be due to several different factors, one being the immune system.  

 

When he got sick, after Penny returned from Nebraska, it was only after she mentioned she was around sick people that he started taking action (not that covering his mouth with his shirt was all that effective).   If he didn't know Penny had been infected or had any obvious symptoms, he would not have taken any precautions.  

 

Well, then, if you have no facts to postulate a differential diagnoses, why claim they had to have been infected simultaneously, because they were exposed simultaneously?  

And I still don't see how both of them end up vomiting with the common cold when vomiting is rare for an adult with a cold.  

Just as a note, my objection was your claim that they had to have been exposed simultaneously, for their symptoms to occur simultaneously.  

Again, in general, if Sheldon was symptomatic first, and then Penny , then Sheldon probably transmitted the germ to Penny. If Penny showed symptoms first, and then Sheldon, then Penny probably infected Sheldon. If Sheldon and Penny both were symptomatic at about the same moment, then they probably were exposed simultaneously. It is unlikely to be the flu, because Sheldon would have had the flu shot, and /or Tamaflu (or similar med). As another example. Kids get infected at school, and then infect the family. The kid gets sick, and then the parent. What is really strange is that Leonard did not get infected, and spent the time with Raj. Perhaps it was a germ they picked up at the Cheesecake Factory. Maybe even something with lactose. That way Leonard never got exposed. Coliform Bacteria are prevalent in dairy products. This brings to mind Louie Pasteur, and small pox vs cow pox.

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FUN FACT: There is an episode of the court room show of Judge Mablean Ephriam where someone is suing her friend, because the friend revengefully advised a tattoo that the plaintive thought was the Chinese symbols for 'courage under fire', but was actually the symbols for 'Chicken Noodle Soup'. The plaintive slept with the defendant's boy friend. It was revenge. Was it Big Bang Theory inspired?

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11 hours ago, Molecules said:

Again, in general, if Sheldon was symptomatic first, and then Penny , then Sheldon probably transmitted the germ to Penny. If Penny showed symptoms first, and then Sheldon, then Penny probably infected Sheldon. If Sheldon and Penny both were symptomatic at about the same moment, then they probably were exposed simultaneously. 

 

This is your contention, and you have yet to provide any kind of support for this, other than your say so.  While I have provided two peer-reviewed articles, that directly contradict your claim.  You haven't provide any kind of support, so your claim is nothing more than male bovine exhaust.  If you can't provide support or refutations of the articles I provided, just say so.  Your word, not matter how many  courses you've taken, has been proven wrong, by the studies I provided.  

11 hours ago, Molecules said:

It is unlikely to be the flu, because Sheldon would have had the flu shot, and /or Tamaflu (or similar med). As another example. 

Did you see him take it?  If not, then it's quite possible he didn't, hence his catching it from Penny. 

11 hours ago, Molecules said:

What is really strange is that Leonard did not get infected, and spent the time with Raj. Perhaps it was a germ they picked up at the Cheesecake Factory. 

What's so strange, Leonard took the theraflu, that's why he didn't get it.  

11 hours ago, Molecules said:

 Perhaps it was a germ they picked up at the Cheesecake Factory. Maybe even something with lactose. That way Leonard never got exposed. Coliform Bacteria are prevalent in dairy products. This brings to mind Louie Pasteur, and small pox vs cow pox.

Yep, Penny got exposed, then exposed Sheldon, the simultaneous onset of vomiting was simply the differential time of incubation.  It took longer for Penny's symptoms to manifest, based on the incubation periods in the two studies I presented, that you have yet to refute.  

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10 hours ago, Tensor said:

 

 

This is your contention, and you have yet to provide any kind of support for this, other than your say so.  While I have provided two peer-reviewed articles, that directly contradict your claim.  You haven't provide any kind of support, so your claim is nothing more than male bovine exhaust.  If you can't provide support or refutations of the articles I provided, just say so.  Your word, not matter how many  courses you've taken, has been proven wrong, by the studies I provided.  

Did you see him take it?  If not, then it's quite possible he didn't, hence his catching it from Penny. 

What's so strange, Leonard took the theraflu, that's why he didn't get it.  

Yep, Penny got exposed, then exposed Sheldon, the simultaneous onset of vomiting was simply the differential time of incubation.  It took longer for Penny's symptoms to manifest, based on the incubation periods in the two studies I presented, that you have yet to refute.  

I have repeatedly tried to explain to you . Let a friend try to explain it to you. What you repeated state are true facts, but they have no relevance to the topic. I have run QC/QA for a major food maker. I have also diagnosed and treated bacterial, viral, and fungal infections for decades. Also, noone takes Tamflu prior to symptoms. Granted I am honored with your 'male bovine exhaust' comment. It elevates me to the lofty  rarefied air of 'Sheldon Cooper is a Smelly Pooper'. Thank you for that I am in good, yet smelly company. Mr Methane would be so proud. I feel like I am floating on air.

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13 minutes ago, Molecules said:

I have repeatedly tried to explain to you . Let a friend try to explain it to you. What you repeated state are true facts, but they have no relevance to the topic. 

 

They have all the relevance to the topic.  You stated that Penny and Sheldon had to have been exposed simultaneously, to exhibit symptoms simultaneously.   That is, according to the two studies I present, is flat out wrong.  You continue to obfuscate that point.  Although in this comment, you admit that my facts are true, which renders your comment about Sheldon and Penny wrong.  So thank you for that.   

13 minutes ago, Molecules said:

 I have run QC/QA for a major food maker. I have also diagnosed and treated bacterial, viral, and fungal infections for decades. 

This has no relevance to the topic.  I have provided two studies, that you have refused to address, and have yet to provide any kind of refutation for, and which you now say are true.   Those studies show that symptom onset can be different for different people. Which was my claim, and which you now agree with me on.

 

13 minutes ago, Molecules said:

Also, noone takes Tamflu prior to symptoms. 

You're the one that brought up Tamflu for Sheldon (which also has no relevance.)

 

13 minutes ago, Molecules said:

 Granted I am honored with your 'male bovine exhaust' comment. It elevates me to the lofty  rarefied air of 'Sheldon Cooper is a Smelly Pooper'. Thank you for that I am in good, yet smelly company. Mr Methane would be so proud. I feel like I am floating on air.

It wasn't directed at you, just the comment.  Simply because it has no relevance.  But since you agree with me now, it really doesn't matter.  

 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, Tensor said:

 

 

They have all the relevance to the topic.  You stated that Penny and Sheldon had to have been exposed simultaneously, to exhibit symptoms simultaneously.   That is, according to the two studies I present, is flat out wrong.  You continue to obfuscate that point.  Although in this comment, you admit that my facts are true, which renders your comment about Sheldon and Penny wrong.  So thank you for that.   

This has no relevance to the topic.  I have provided two studies, that you have refused to address, and have yet to provide any kind of refutation for, and which you now say are true.   Those studies show that symptom onset can be different for different people. Which was my claim, and which you now agree with me on.

 

You're the one that brought up Tamflu for Sheldon (which also has no relevance.)

 

It wasn't directed at you, just the comment.  Simply because it has no relevance.  But since you agree with me now, it really doesn't matter.  

Just let someone educate you on the subject. I could say the sky is blue, but it is not relevant to this topic. I am not here to lecture. I have tried, but you just do not get it. Let's try it this way. Leonard sleeps with Penny. Penny gets sick. Leonard does not get sick. Sheldon gets sick. Penny did not pass her germs to Leonard, because Leonard did not get sick. Leonard should have been sick before Sheldon, by your theory, but Sheldon had the least contact with Penny. Leonard should have been sick before Sheldon. Therefore, Penny and Sheldon got the pathogen simultaneously, and it could not be by contact, because Leonard had all kinds of contact with Penny (the lucky Bas***d). Perhaps, it was foodborne. Perhaps the food had lactose. By your theory, why did Leonard not get sick? Do you get it, now? If not, I am done. Now I understand Sheldon trying to teach Penny physics. Just remember Fig Newton is named for the town, not the scientist.

 

 

Just let someone educate you on the subject. I could say the sky is blue, but it is not relevant to this topic. I am not here to lecture. I have tried, but you just do not get it. Let's try it this way. Leonard sleeps with Penny. Penny gets sick. Leonard does not get sick. Sheldon gets sick. Penny did not pass her germs to Leonard, because Leonard did not get sick. Leonard should have been sick before Sheldon, by your theory, but Sheldon had the least contact with Penny. Leonard should have been sick before Sheldon. Therefore, Penny and Sheldon got the pathogen simultaneously, and it could not be by contact, because Leonard had all kinds of contact with Penny (the lucky Bas***d). Perhaps, it was foodborne. Perhaps the food had lactose. By your theory, why did Leonard not get sick? Do you get it, now? If not, I am done. Now I understand Sheldon trying to teach Penny physics. Just remember Fig Newton is named for the town, not the scientist.

1 minute ago, Molecules said:

Just let someone educate you on the subject. I could say the sky is blue, but it is not relevant to this topic. I am not here to lecture. I have tried, but you just do not get it. Let's try it this way. Leonard sleeps with Penny. Penny gets sick. Leonard does not get sick. Sheldon gets sick. Penny did not pass her germs to Leonard, because Leonard did not get sick. Leonard should have been sick before Sheldon, by your theory, but Sheldon had the least contact with Penny. Leonard should have been sick before Sheldon. Therefore, Penny and Sheldon got the pathogen simultaneously, and it could not be by contact, because Leonard had all kinds of contact with Penny (the lucky Bas***d). Perhaps, it was foodborne. Perhaps the food had lactose. By your theory, why did Leonard not get sick? Do you get it, now? If not, I am done. Now I understand Sheldon trying to teach Penny physics. Just remember Fig Newton is named for the town, not the scientist.

Let me give you an example of a diagnostic challenge. An entire wing of a facility had all women wearing dresses coming down with cellulitis. Women wearing pants, and men did not get cellulitis. Only one wing, not others. The reason I discovered was that one woman horded her dirty clothes. Maggots and flies took off and, filthy with germs, the flies carried the bacteria to all exposed surfaces, while they slept. They all got infected at the same time, because they were all exposed simultaneously. Get It.

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1 minute ago, Molecules said:

Just let someone educate you on the subject. 

 

I have let someone educate me, the two articles I provided you.  Are those articles correct, and if you say no, what articles or papers show those articles I provided are wrong.  If you can't provide those, your contention is simply wrong.  

1 minute ago, Molecules said:

Leonard sleeps with Penny. Penny gets sick. Leonard does not get sick. Sheldon gets sick. Penny did not pass her germs to Leonard, because Leonard did not get sick. Leonard should have been sick before Sheldon, by your theory, but Sheldon had the least contact with Penny. Leonard should have been sick before Sheldon. Therefore, Penny and Sheldon got the pathogen simultaneously, and it could not be by contact, because Leonard had all kinds of contact with Penny (the lucky Bas***d).

That's not my theory, what you are saying is a straw man. I'm saying is that different people can have onset of symptoms at different times, and thus do not need to be exposed simultaneously, to have symptoms appear at the same time. Penny could be exposed to the virus before Sheldon, pass it to Sheldon and both of them have symptoms appear at the same time.  The two studies I provided show that there can be different onset times.  You haven't refuted those with any kind of peer-reviewed paper.  So, you contention that they have to be exposed at the same time to exhibit symptoms at the same time are simply wrong.  

1 minute ago, Molecules said:

Perhaps, it was foodborne. Perhaps the food had lactose. 

And yet, they showed Penny shedding virus particles through the air.  I think I'll go with what they showed. 

1 minute ago, Molecules said:

 By your theory, why did Leonard not get sick? Do you get it, now? If not, I am done. Now I understand Sheldon trying to teach Penny physics. Just remember Fig Newton is named for the town, not the scientist.

 

1 minute ago, Molecules said:

 By your theory, why did Leonard not get sick? 

Did have exposer before, and had a subclinical case?   That is a possibility.  But, again, I'm only talking about the onset of symptoms with Sheldon.  You claimed that Penny and Sheldon could not have symptoms exhibit at the same time, without having been exposed at the same time.  I provided articles that contradict that, and show your contention was wrong.  Do you have a refutation of those articles?  

1 minute ago, Molecules said:

 If not, I am done. 

That still doesn't make you right.  You still have not refuted the articles I provided, articles that show your contention that Sheldon and Penny had to have been exposed simultaneously, to exhibit symptoms simultaneously.  

1 minute ago, Molecules said:

 Now I understand Sheldon trying to teach Penny physics.

Actually I don't think you do.  Sheldon was using known facts, not making claims, in direct contradiction to known facts.  Unless, of course, you have a refutation to those two articles I provided you.  

 

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Why so Tense Tensor? I can't teach you. You do not understand Articles. You do not understand Pathogenesis and immunology. Have a friend, physician, explain it to you. This show makes mistakes in different areas. Hence 'Episodic Errors'. The point is this is another error. Seeing computer graphics showing visually invisible particles traveling through space is not proof. They also showed Sheldon as the Flash running to the Grand Canyon and back. I am done. This entire salvo reminds me of the Monty Python skit concerning an argument.

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7 hours ago, Molecules said:

Why so Tense Tensor?

Not tense at all, just don't believe everyone who makes a claim, and then refuses to provide references or refutations.  Why don't you want to provide those?

7 hours ago, Molecules said:

I can't teach you. You do not understand Articles. You do not understand Pathogenesis and immunology. Have a friend, physician, explain it to you. 

 

You say I'm wrong about the articles. So, either point out exactly where I'm wrong,  or it's a case of you can't.  Which is it? Your say so isn't good enough.  

By the way, I did ask for an explanation.  I showed the articles to my neighbor, who's a Forensic Pathologist, she agrees with my contention, and with my interpretation of the articles. But, I'm more than willing to note I'm wrong, as soon as you can provide where I'm wrong or what you think I don't understand about the articles.  

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On 3/24/2019 at 11:23 PM, Tensor said:

Not tense at all, just don't believe everyone who makes a claim, and then refuses to provide references or refutations.  Why don't you want to provide those?

 

You say I'm wrong about the articles. So, either point out exactly where I'm wrong,  or it's a case of you can't.  Which is it? Your say so isn't good enough.  

By the way, I did ask for an explanation.  I showed the articles to my neighbor, who's a Forensic Pathologist, she agrees with my contention, and with my interpretation of the articles. But, I'm more than willing to note I'm wrong, as soon as you can provide where I'm wrong or what you think I don't understand about the articles.  

First, I read the abstracts of the 2 articles. I am not computer literate, and did not realize I had to click on 'this study' to get to the articles. Secondly, the 2 articles deal with various viruses, including the flu virus (in general). Viruses mutate. Look at AIDS,the common cold, the flu, warts, etc. Different viruses have different time periods of transmission and time for symptoms to manifest. The 2 articles you reference are review articles concerning different viruses at different times in history. Did you know AIDS was found in a dead sailor's blood sample from 1965? The reason we need a 'new' flu shot is because the flu viruses are differenet. The flu vaccine is the best guess of the current flu viruses in Asia, ATT. The viruses discussed in the 2 articles should vary because they are different. One of the 2 articles reviewed viruses from 1965 to 2005. Yes, viruses vary on transmission and symptom onset over the course of 4 decades of different viruses. Why didn't your Forensic Pathologist point out this simple fact to you? Also, the flu is not likely involved. Why did Leonard not get the pathogen? The pathogen that Sheldon and Penny got simultaneously showed symptoms at the same time because they both got the same pathogen at the same time. If Penny gave the pathogen to Sheldon, she would have symptoms before Sheldon. Since they got symptomatic at the same time, they were exposed tot he same pathogen at the same time. All your 2 articles prove is that different (evolved) pathogens vary in transmission and symptom onset. at different times in history. They  vary in time of onset because the are different genotypes. Are you sure your real name is not Stephen Hawking? Do you have any education in the sciences? Read the articles you cite.  Again, the 2 articles you reference have nothing to do with this topic. Now, apologize to yourself and me for wasting our time. Get it.

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18 hours ago, Molecules said:

The viruses discussed in the 2 articles should vary because they are different. One of the 2 articles reviewed viruses from 1965 to 2005. Yes, viruses vary on transmission and symptom onset over the course of 4 decades of different viruses. Why didn't your Forensic Pathologist point out this simple fact to you? 

 

She didn't point that out, because I told her there were different viruses in the one study, that had different onset times.  She agreed with my contention, that each individual virus demonstrates a range of onset times.   

18 hours ago, Molecules said:

 Why did Leonard not get the pathogen? The pathogen that Sheldon and Penny got simultaneously showed symptoms at the same time because they both got the same pathogen at the same time. If Penny gave the pathogen to Sheldon, she would have symptoms before Sheldon. Since they got symptomatic at the same time, they were exposed tot he same pathogen at the same time. 

As for why Leonard didn't get it, if he had a subclinical case, he wouldn't show symptoms (or show a minimum of symptoms), would he?

Then can you explain why, the one article, with different virus, also has a range of days for onset, for EACH individual virus?  Note, each of them has a spread of at least three days for onset.  In direct contradiction to your claim of a requirement to have them exposed at the same time. 

                                                 Range                  Central tendency        
Adenovirus 4-8 6        
Coronavirus            
    Human (non-SARS) 2-5 3        
    SARS-associated 2-10 5        
Influenza 1-4 2        
             
Measles 8-14 10        
Parainfluenza 2-6 4        
Respiratory syncytial virus 3-7 5        
Rhinovirus 2-4 2        

 

The second article, which concentrates on influenza has this paragraph, which specifically states there is a 1.5 - 4 day spread for generation time. (which tracks with onset of symptoms).  Note, even pathogen listed has a range of onset.  Why should I believe you when the two articles specifically state there is a range for EACH virus.

As for why Leonard didn't get it, if he had a subclinical case, he wouldn't show symptoms (or show a minimum of symptoms), would he?

 

 

 

Quote

Epidemiologically, one is as much interested in how the infectiousness of an infected individual varies over time as the time someone sheds virus at above a detectable level. This is best captured by the generation time of an influenza epidemic. Our analysis indicates that the generation time of influenza may be as short as 2.5 days on average (range: 1.5–4.0 days). This value is consistent with the value of 2.6 days estimated from epidemiologic data (4) and substantially shorter than other epidemiologic modeling studies have assumed (2, 5).

Can you explain why influenza, in this article, matches the onset spread of the previous study?  Two different studies, reached the same conclusion as my contention, that each virus has a spread of onset time.  

18 hours ago, Molecules said:

 All your 2 articles prove is that different (evolved) pathogens vary in transmission and symptom onset. at different times in history. They  vary in time of onset because the are different genotypes.

Actually, that's not true.  The one article on influenza specified differences for each of the genotypes used.  Those were,  A/H1N1, A/H3N2, A/H2N2, and type b.  All of them have a similar track for onset.  

18 hours ago, Molecules said:

 1. Are you sure your real name is not Stephen Hawking?

2.Do you have any education in the sciences?

3.Read the articles you cite. 

4.Again, the 2 articles you reference have nothing to do with this topic.

5.Now, apologize to yourself and me for wasting our time. Get it.

1. Nope.  

2.  I do.  In Math, Physics, Chemistry,  and Biology.  Self taught in computer science, but worked in the field.    

3. I did, but you evidently didn't, as some of your claims in this post are contradicted by the articles themselves.  

4. Oh, yes they do.  I claimed onset time for a virus can vary.  Each of the articles show this is the case.   You have yet to provide an article or study that show there is some requirement to be exposed at the same time, to have similar symptoms exhibit at the same time.  

5.  I have nothing to apologize for, as you have yet to provide some evidence to support your claim, which is what is wasting our time.   Your say so isn't good enough.    Not to mention you obviously misread parts of each of the papers.  So, how about you apologize?

I mean, it should be easy for someone with your supposedly vast education to find and link to a article, study or paper that claims that every symptom onset is the same for every human exposed to a particular pathogen.  I await such a link from you. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, Tensor said:

 

 

She didn't point that out, because I told her there were different viruses in the one study, that had different onset times.  She agreed with my contention, that each individual virus demonstrates a range of onset times.   

As for why Leonard didn't get it, if he had a subclinical case, he wouldn't show symptoms (or show a minimum of symptoms), would he?

Then can you explain why, the one article, with different virus, also has a range of days for onset, for EACH individual virus?  Note, each of them has a spread of at least three days for onset.  In direct contradiction to your claim of a requirement to have them exposed at the same time. 

                                                 Range                  Central tendency        
Adenovirus 4-8 6        
Coronavirus            
    Human (non-SARS) 2-5 3        
    SARS-associated 2-10 5        
Influenza 1-4 2        
             
Measles 8-14 10        
Parainfluenza 2-6 4        
Respiratory syncytial virus 3-7 5        
Rhinovirus 2-4 2        

 

The second article, which concentrates on influenza has this paragraph, which specifically states there is a 1.5 - 4 day spread for generation time. (which tracks with onset of symptoms).  Note, even pathogen listed has a range of onset.  Why should I believe you when the two articles specifically state there is a range for EACH virus.

As for why Leonard didn't get it, if he had a subclinical case, he wouldn't show symptoms (or show a minimum of symptoms), would he?

 

 

 

Can you explain why influenza, in this article, matches the onset spread of the previous study?  Two different studies, reached the same conclusion as my contention, that each virus has a spread of onset time.  

Actually, that's not true.  The one article on influenza specified differences for each of the genotypes used.  Those were,  A/H1N1, A/H3N2, A/H2N2, and type b.  All of them have a similar track for onset.  

1. Nope.  

2.  I do.  In Math, Physics, Chemistry,  and Biology.  Self taught in computer science, but worked in the field.    

3. I did, but you evidently didn't, as some of your claims in this post are contradicted by the articles themselves.  

4. Oh, yes they do.  I claimed onset time for a virus can vary.  Each of the articles show this is the case.   You have yet to provide an article or study that show there is some requirement to be exposed at the same time, to have similar symptoms exhibit at the same time.  

5.  I have nothing to apologize for, as you have yet to provide some evidence to support your claim, which is what is wasting our time.   Your say so isn't good enough.    Not to mention you obviously misread parts of each of the papers.  So, how about you apologize?

I mean, it should be easy for someone with your supposedly vast education to find and link to a article, study or paper that claims that every symptom onset is the same for every human exposed to a particular pathogen.  I await such a link from you. 

 

Have your forensic Pathologist explain it to you. They likely were infected with tainted food, not viruses. I am not going to research established facts. Your request is like asking me to cite a publication proving that 2 + 2 = 4. It is basic facts in the field. Different seasons have bad and uneventful flu infections. Viruses, like AIDS, mutate constantly. The common cold virus is constantly evolving, so that our previous immunity is moot, and it is seen as different to our immune systems.  How can you infer Leonard had a subclinical flu attack. When and how was this implied? Read a book on the subject. Take a course in the subject. What degrees do you have? What classes, beside biology have you taken? Your articles are review articles. Get a tutor.

 

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4 hours ago, Molecules said:

Have your forensic Pathologist explain it to you. They likely were infected with tainted food, not viruses. I am not going to research established facts. Your request is like asking me to cite a publication proving that 2 + 2 = 4. It is basic facts in the field. Different seasons have bad and uneventful flu infections. Viruses, like AIDS, mutate constantly. The common cold virus is constantly evolving, so that our previous immunity is moot, and it is seen as different to our immune systems.  How can you infer Leonard had a subclinical flu attack. When and how was this implied? Read a book on the subject. Take a course in the subject. What degrees do you have? What classes, beside biology have you taken? Your articles are review articles. Get a tutor.

BTW, I fixed your post.  You answered the post inside the quote marks, making it look like your answer was part of MY post.  

 

Again, a rant with lots of bluster, but no facts supported by links.  If these are such established facts, you should be able to find at least one link that provide proof of your contention that two people have to be exposed at the same time, to exhibit symptoms at the same time.  It took me less than an hour to find those two items that support my contention that there are different onset times, for symptoms.  I just figured you, with all your supposed education, would be able to find something to support your contention rather quickly. Or am I wrong about your claimed education?  Actually, the fact that you haven't after this long,  makes it obvious you can't, and your contention is simply wrong.  

I can infer Leonard had a subclinical case of the flu , the same way you you can infer they were infected by tainted food.  Or, are you saying it's impossible for Leonard to have a subclinical case of the flu?  Now that would be another link I would need to see, over your say so.  Although, in one of my links, they talk about subclinical cases, so obviously it can happen.   

 And so what if they are review articles?  They also provide actually experimental results, results you have yet to provide any kind of refutation for.  

 

 

 

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On 3/27/2019 at 6:08 PM, Tensor said:

 

BTW, I fixed your post.  You answered the post inside the quote marks, making it look like your answer was part of MY post.  

 

Again, a rant with lots of bluster, but no facts supported by links.  If these are such established facts, you should be able to find at least one link that provide proof of your contention that two people have to be exposed at the same time, to exhibit symptoms at the same time.  It took me less than an hour to find those two items that support my contention that there are different onset times, for symptoms.  I just figured you, with all your supposed education, would be able to find something to support your contention rather quickly. Or am I wrong about your claimed education?  Actually, the fact that you haven't after this long,  makes it obvious you can't, and your contention is simply wrong.  

I can infer Leonard had a subclinical case of the flu , the same way you you can infer they were infected by tainted food.  Or, are you saying it's impossible for Leonard to have a subclinical case of the flu?  Now that would be another link I would need to see, over your say so.  Although, in one of my links, they talk about subclinical cases, so obviously it can happen.   

 And so what if they are review articles?  They also provide actually experimental results, results you have yet to provide any kind of refutation for.  

 

 Do you have a high school diploma, AA,BA,BS,MA,MS,PHD, etc?  A high school graduate would list, math,physics,chemistry, biology as classes. I can't get through to you. What education level am I dealing with? Elaborate on the courses you have taken. Give me a clue what capacity I am dealing with. Have your Forensic Pathologist friend watch the episode in question. Inform her that Sheldon is an OC germaphobe, and that Leonard is lactose intolerant (along with sulfites, and melon). Let her give you a differential diagnosis. Ask your forensic pathologist about the review articles. Again, review articles collate information and summarize. I know, I had a review article published long ago with about 80 footnotes. I also proposed a possible cure to a rare disease. I have been published on psychology, real estate, practice management, medicine, and law. I know of what I speak. The article states various viruses have different onsets over the course of 40 years. AIDS and the common cold differ. It is irrelevant. Ask your Forensic pathologist. 

 

 

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Here, again I fixed it for you, here's your post, which again appeared inside my quote marks.  

Quote

Do you have a high school diploma, AA,BA,BS,MA,MS,PHD, etc?  A high school graduate would list, math,physics,chemistry, biology as classes. I can't get through to you. What education level am I dealing with? Elaborate on the courses you have taken. Give me a clue what capacity I am dealing with. Have your Forensic Pathologist friend watch the episode in question. Inform her that Sheldon is an OC germaphobe, and that Leonard is lactose intolerant (along with sulfites, and melon). Let her give you a differential diagnosis. Ask your forensic pathologist about the review articles. Again, review articles collate information and summarize. I know, I had a review article published long ago with about 80 footnotes. I also proposed a possible cure to a rare disease. I have been published on psychology, real estate, practice management, medicine, and law. I know of what I speak. The article states various viruses have different onsets over the course of 40 years. AIDS and the common cold differ. It is irrelevant. Ask your Forensic pathologist. 

A college graduate would also know that math, physics, chemistry etc, are fields of study.  Individual college classes would have some sort of number assigned, to it, such as   Math 1101, or maybe Math 101, 201, etc.  

Look, I've contributed data I've analyzed to various papers, if you wish, I can point them out on ArXiv (all of them in astro-physics).   As for my education, I notice you haven't provided yours.  But, I really don't care.  If you make a claim, it's up to you to provide support for that claim.   What I do find telling, is you continue to claim this or that expertise, but you can't seem to find any article, or paper, or study that shows that two different people, have to be exposed at the same time, to exhibit the same symptoms at the same time.  

Interestingly, I found this paper,   which seeks to explain the distribution of the incubation time for a specific disease, something you claim doesn't happen.  And, before you say the diseases are different, I know this (as do the authors) so it doesn't matter.  They are not comparing the various disease incubation times to other diseases, they are simply noting that while different diseases have different incubation times, each disease has it's own incubation time.   They also note that the incubation time for a specific disease, shows a distribution, in time.  I'll also point out, that this paper, which cites one of the other papers I suggested you look at.  

Here are some comments from the abstract and the body of the paper:
 

Quote

 

The incubation period of a disease is the time between an initiating pathologic event and the onset of symptoms. For typhoid fever, polio, measles, leukemia and many other diseases, the incubation period is highly variable. Some affected people take much longer than average to show symptoms,

 

 

 

 

Quote

"...Some affected people take much longer than average to show symptoms,..."

Quote

The discovery that incubation periods tend to follow right-skewed distributions originally came from epidemiological investigations of incidents in which many people were simultaneously and inadvertently exposed to a pathogen.

The two bolded comments are the basis of my contention.  That two different people, do not have to have simultaneous exposure, to have the same symptoms appear at the same time.   Note that my contention, is an underlying assumption in this paper.    So, if you believe if I'm wrong,  by all means, provide a link to a paper that supports your contention.   You may need to write to these authors to tell them one of their underlying assumptions are wrong.  Although since was peer-reviewed and published, you may have a tough time getting them to believe there is a problem.  

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Season 5-The Flaming Spittoon Acquisition. Sheldon states that Amy did surgery on her webbed toes using only nitrous oxide from whipped cream cans.  This is impossible. Webbed fingers, or toes can be surgically separated, but tissue expanders, or skin grafts are needed. Just severing the webs leaves voids. Further without x-rays there maybe boney attachments between the webbed digits, requiring at least a osteotome (bone chisel), or bone saw. Further ntrous oxide from whipped cream cans, can kill. This is also called laughing gas. Under laughing gas, you become incompasitated. You could not perform surgery. Whip-its are dangerous. In, for example, a dental office, the nitrous oxide is mixed with oxygen. If pure nitrous oxcide is consumed, you starve your body of oxygen, and die, or at least cause brain tissue death. It is the same as being choked to death. Like wise, even though Elton/ John and Bernie Taupin have a song lyric stating 'I get high in the evening sniffing pots of glue' (The B**ch Is Back). Glues are sometimes solvents and will dissolve the brain fatty (lipid) material. The brain is 60% fat. You will disolve your brain. Not fun.

 

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On 3/27/2019 at 6:08 PM, Tensor said:

 

BTW, I fixed your post.  You answered the post inside the quote marks, making it look like your answer was part of MY post.  

 

Again, a rant with lots of bluster, but no facts supported by links.  If these are such established facts, you should be able to find at least one link that provide proof of your contention that two people have to be exposed at the same time, to exhibit symptoms at the same time.  It took me less than an hour to find those two items that support my contention that there are different onset times, for symptoms.  I just figured you, with all your supposed education, would be able to find something to support your contention rather quickly. Or am I wrong about your claimed education?  Actually, the fact that you haven't after this long,  makes it obvious you can't, and your contention is simply wrong.  

I can infer Leonard had a subclinical case of the flu , the same way you you can infer they were infected by tainted food.  Or, are you saying it's impossible for Leonard to have a subclinical case of the flu?  Now that would be another link I would need to see, over your say so.  Although, in one of my links, they talk about subclinical cases, so obviously it can happen.   

 And so what if they are review articles?  They also provide actually experimental results, results you have yet to provide any kind of refutation for.  

I am not wasting any more time with this. 

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I fixed your post again.  When you click on the quote button, you have to scroll down, to below the quoted text.  If you are still within the  quote box, but below the text, hit return until the cursor is outside the quote box.  This will keep your comments outside of the quote box.

59 minutes ago, Molecules said:

I am not wasting any more time with this. 

Since you haven't produced any kind of support for your claim, or provided any kind of article, study or paper to refute the three papers, I provided, that support my contention, I would say this is a smart move.   Although, you have said you weren't wasting any more time, with this subject, a couple of times before and have continued to make a claim that you haven't supported with articles, study, and papers.

 

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9 minutes ago, Tensor said:

I fixed your post again.  When you click on the quote button, you have to scroll down, to below the quoted text.  If you are still within the  quote box, but below the text, hit return until the cursor is outside the quote box.  This will keep your comments outside of the quote box.

Since you haven't produced any kind of support for your claim, or provided any kind of article, study or paper to refute the three papers, I provided, that support my contention, I would say this is a smart move.   Although, you have said you weren't wasting any more time, with this subject, a couple of times before and have continued to make a claim that you haven't supported with articles, study, and papers.

 

Waste your own time to your heart's content. There is none so blind, as those who will not see. Your 3rd article states diseases, not pathogens. It includes white blood cell cancer. Just way off topic.  I tried to teach you, but you do not understand. Have the forensic pathologist explain it to you. I have better and more important things to do. Bye.

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1 minute ago, Molecules said:

Waste your own time to your heart's content. There is none so blind, as those who will not see. Your 3rd article states diseases, not pathogens. It includes white blood cell cancer. Just way off topic.  I tried to teach you, but you do not understand. Have the forensic pathologist explain it to you. I have better and more important things to do. Bye.

Still no article, study or paper to support your claim, I see.  I also see nothing to refute my claim.  While it does include non-viral diseases, it also has viral diseases, concentrate on those.  As for the disease vs pathogen, that whole paper is about whether or not individuals can exhibit the same symptoms, of the disease, at the same time, if they are exposed to the pathogen, that causes the disease, at different times.  Those papers definitely show diseases have different incubation times, in different individuals, which means two different people, could show the same symptom, even if exposed at different times.  I also see you answered even after you said you weren't wasting any more time.  BTW, I talked to Forensic Pathologist, she agrees with me, and tells me my take on the papers is correct. 

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