episodes 1222 'The Maternal Conclusion' (May 9)

[veejay]

1 hour ago, bfm said:

/..

Many talk about how whimpy Leonard is, what a loser he is. It's easy to see it that way when focusing on whay we see on the show, the show does focus on that and it's easy to forget about the context. But taking this character in context, IMO, shows how resilient, strong, he really is. This character is a person who has been emotionally abused by his mother, while his father was mostly absent (thus enabling it). Many people like that would be far less functional. Yet he had managed to grow, function, live his life and then expend his life, "opening to the world" with the help of Penny (as Johnny says, to Leonard Penny represented a way to get out to 'the world out there'). And here we saw that strength full-blown when Leonard was able to accept his tragedy and move on. He also decided not to dwell on it when he realised it just won't help, in fact saying his list probably would've made Beverly counter-attack with criticism and detached, analytical behavior (her defenses). Leonard's strength (which is despite, and not because of Beverly), IMO, is what made possible for Beverly to get to a place where she finally, finally could recognize her failures (and at that perhaps a sort of inability).

..//

I'm deliberately picking out this paragraph of your remarkable post.

Edited May 10, 2019 by veejay

[Strawberry PopTart Fan]

5 hours ago, veejay said:

I like to quote an excerpt from this recap:
"It really is just Sheldon’s world and we just live in it."
Me, myself & I tried, but no, never ever!

So much for all the years of b.s. we've been fed about Sheldon's "growth". He still the same egotistical, selfish, clueless, obnoxious ass  he was from day one. His lack of empathy for Leonard is horrifying. Poor Amy, but bless her for getting him out of Leonard's hair. She has her work cut out for her.

[shell]

2 hours ago, bfm said:

🙋‍♀️

_________________________

They also showed Amy's way of coping - intellectualising, using Biology, and Sheldon's avoiding connection with his friend's complex hurt feelings and staying in his own world.

 

 

Like the way you worded this

[Kathy2611]

50 minutes ago, Strawberry PopTart Fan said:

So much for all the years of b.s. we've been fed about Sheldon's "growth". He still the same egotistical, selfish, clueless, obnoxious ass  he was from day one. His lack of empathy for Leonard is horrifying. Poor Amy, but bless her for getting him out of Leonard's hair. She has her work cut out for her.

This ^.    This is what irks the crap out of me about Sheldon.  How many freaking times does he have to be told or “learn a lesson” about his behavior?  It stopped being funny a loooong time ago (if it ever really was).  

I recently started binge watching from the beginning and the difference of Sheldon in the beginning to now is astronomical!  It actually made me start to cringe whenever he did or said something childish or selfish in the later seasons that he should’ve already learned (multiple times) and you start to see and realize the writers are just going for a quick laugh and yeah, I’m sure upon first watch, I did laugh but now it makes me cringe and want to reach out and slap the shit out of him.  

I still love Shamy and they are still my favorite but the writers claim of Sheldon’s “growth” is bs.   They just went for the laugh.  I think he was more mature (and likeable) in the earlier seasons.

[veejay]

@Strawberry PopTart Fan  &  @Kathy2611

I've been giving up analyzing this "phenomenon" Sheldon for some time now.

[ShamyScience]

26 minutes ago, Kathy2611 said:

This ^.    This is what irks the crap out of me about Sheldon.  How many freaking times does he have to be told or “learn a lesson” about his behavior?  It stopped being funny a loooong time ago (if it ever really was).  

I recently started binge watching from the beginning and the difference of Sheldon in the beginning to now is astronomical!  It actually made me start to cringe whenever he did or said something childish or selfish in the later seasons that he should’ve already learned (multiple times) and you start to see and realize the writers are just going for a quick laugh and yeah, I’m sure upon first watch, I did laugh but now it makes me cringe and want to reach out and slap the shit out of him.  

I still love Shamy and they are still my favorite but the writers claim of Sheldon’s “growth” is bs.   They just went for the laugh.  I think he was more mature (and likeable) in the earlier seasons.

What's most annoying to me is the flip flop writing, especially this season.

One week he has a great moment but the next they throw it out the window for (IMO, unfunny) jokes. The hand smelling "joke" made my blood boil because it made no friggin' sense!

I mean, it HAS to be possible for professional writers to create a mature Sheldon and make him funny. Plenty of FF writers manage to do it without getting millions of dollars.

[Chrismo]

Enjoyed the episode and storylines. Saying that it was too much for one episode considering the rest of season just dragged on.

[bfm]

I think that's where not having him diagnosed or not giving more of an explanation of his mental workings hurts the show. See, on the surface he seemed not to care and only think about himself. But another way of looking at it is possible, if you think of Sheldon as having major problems in the emotional realm. He didn't make me laugh and was more of an interruption in that scene to me, but not as annoying because I interpreted his behavior as avoiding contact with the heavy and complex emotional situation his friend is going over, a situation that's intense and that's several levels above Sheldon's head (the latter was insinuated in the text). 

Amy surprised me for the better, finally she's become a true friend to Leonard (we've seen that in the donation episode as well). It wasn't like that, for years she didn't seem to like him that much and didn't show much of an interest in him. 

[Die Zimtzicke]

9 hours ago, joyceraye said:

Well, whoever suggested Beverly was only coming for research nailed it ! 

Yes, that's true. With these writers you pretty much have to believe what they tell you.

 

8 hours ago, Sah said:

Stuart and Denise just make me smile because they are so awkward. Glad they are moving in together. I really like Denise and I just wish we could have met her earlier in the series and gotten to know her more. 

Yes, we really could have used a nerdy girl. But I have to admit the I love yous were cute as can be and the roommate was PERFECTLY creepy. Although I'm not sure why she would have ever let someone that creepy move in.

As for Leonard and Beverly, she was brilliant as always and his final admittance that people are just what they are was very good.

And THANK YOU Bernadette for understanding just as perfectly that a spouse best friend and a same sex best friend are NOT the same thing. Because they are not and I've argued that for years and years.

[Sah]

5 hours ago, bfm said:

🙋‍♀️

_________________________

Wow. Finally an episode in this season (except the Halloween one) I really loved. Not the comedy in it though, bit the drama. These things were long overdue. I get people who won't like the episode, it was more dramatic than light comedic, I think that's because the writers waited with all those things to the last moment and so they were crammed together. 

I LOVED LOVED LOVED that they finally dealt with Leonard's issues with his mother in a more deep and serious way. The things he said in this episode, about always having the hope of getting his mother's approval reignited when interacting with her, always trying to win this approval, even though he knows he is unlikely to get it, it all reminded me of some posts I made, I think in season 11, maybe the novel episode?, about his repetition compulsion. Repetition compulsion in a nutshell, a veryvl simplified nutshell, means a person repeatedly brings him/herself into situations where a traumatic experience is repeated. Leonard repeatedly got (gets) himself into situations where he wouldn't get approval and recognition from his mother and others, instead getting degraded. This can be seen as playing a role in his relationship with Sheldon (their real friendship, good times, shared interests etc. notwithstanding). 

Many talk about how whimpy Leonard is, what a loser he is. It's easy to see it that way when focusing on whay we see on the show, the show does focus on that and it's easy to forget about the context. But taking this character in context, IMO, shows how resilient, strong, he really is. This character is a person who has been emotionally abused by his mother, while his father was mostly absent (thus enabling it). Many people like that would be far less functional. Yet he had managed to grow, function, live his life and then expend his life, "opening to the world" with the help of Penny (as Johnny says, to Leonard Penny represented a way to get out to 'the world out there'). And here we saw that strength full-blown when Leonard was able to accept his tragedy and move on. He also decided not to dwell on it when he realised it just won't help, in fact saying his list probably would've made Beverly counter-attack with criticism and detached, analytical behavior (her defenses). Leonard's strength (which is despite, and not because of Beverly), IMO, is what made possible for Beverly to get to a place where she finally, finally could recognize her failures (and at that perhaps a sort of inability). 

Johnny was fantastic IMO. Like Leonard, I find him incredibly underrated. He was awesome. Top performance. Christine Baranski was amazing as well, first by making me want to slap Beverly in the face several times and then with Beverly's moment of truth and vulnerability, with she managed to pull off genuinely with so little time (in a longer show this scene would've gotten several additional minutes). As you can see above, just the few seconds of the hug from the promo made me see the unusual affection shown there. I teared up in that Leonard and Beverly scene and in some previous Leonard parts.

Penny had some good zingers, although I gotta say her awkward smile when Leonard realized Beverly came for research distracted me. The episode also showed well how Penny has trouble dealing with intense emotions. I'm not saying that as a complaint about her, that's the character. They also showed Amy's way of coping - intellectualising, using Biology, and Sheldon's avoiding connection with his friend's complex hurt feelings and staying in his own world.

 

Raj - great call there. My problems were the unbelievable pace (Anu goes to a convention and right there starts a new job?) and the lack of the others' responses (Lenny, Shamy). It is very true that Raj was desperately chasing something that didn't appear to be there, just so he could have a marriage and a family. His saying it may be his last chance at that did hit home though, being single myself while many friends are getting married and everybody at work have children (I'm years younger than they are). Loved Howard making the grand romantic gesture to help his dear, dear friend. And Bernadetre yelling at him to go (can't remember the line right now) was funny.

Stuart and Denise plot was nice and it was time.

Penny almost walked away with a new job at that conference as well. With the networking at conferences I don't see it as that unusual...

 

[bfm]

1 hour ago, Sah said:

Penny almost walked away with a new job at that conference as well. With the networking at conferences I don't see it as that unusual...

 

I was just surprised that she would start a new job in a new country right away

[SRAM]

3 hours ago, bfm said:

I think that's where not having him diagnosed or not giving more of an explanation of his mental workings hurts the show. See, on the surface he seemed not to care and only think about himself. But another way of looking at it is possible, if you think of Sheldon as having major problems in the emotional realm. He didn't make me laugh and was more of an interruption in that scene to me, but not as annoying because I interpreted his behavior as avoiding contact with the heavy and complex emotional situation his friend is going over, a situation that's intense and that's several levels above Sheldon's head (the latter was insinuated in the text). 

Amy surprised me for the better, finally she's become a true friend to Leonard (we've seen that in the donation episode as well). It wasn't like that, for years she didn't seem to like him that much and didn't show much of an interest in him. 

I feel that the reason Amy didn’t like Leonard at first was that she spent most of her time with Sheldon and during that time Sheldon use to always put Leonard down so Amy’s image of Leonard was painted by Sheldon.  However, after she became a full member of the gang, part of the girl posse, and Sheldon’s official girlfriend, her views softened towards Leonard to the point during the last few seasons she has sat down and even asked him for advice about dealing with Sheldon.  Finally, now that Amy has lived with Sheldon and is married to him, she probably understands Leonard more and can empathize more with him allowing her to now interact with him like she did last night.

 

Another thing about last nights show that I think shows a real problem in TBBT writer’s room that has gone uncorrected for years now, their lack of planning ahead on how they write the show.  The Leonard/Beverly plot and the Raj/Anu/Howard plot where both good enough to be main plots for an episode and would both probably benefited by being a little longer and having the whole game being involved in some way, but because the writers don’t plan ahead they ended up stuck together in one episode while we were beaten over the head all season with this Asymmetry/Nobel plot being the lead plot of many episodes.  It made the whole Asymmetry/Nobel plot boring and repetitive by keeping it the main plot so much, where it should have been a secondary or even a third tier plot in several of the season 12 episodes.

[Mario D.]

5 hours ago, Strawberry PopTart Fan said:

So much for all the years of b.s. we've been fed about Sheldon's "growth". He still the same egotistical, selfish, clueless, obnoxious ass  he was from day one. His lack of empathy for Leonard is horrifying. Poor Amy, but bless her for getting him out of Leonard's hair. She has her work cut out for her.

Could not agree with you more.  I think he really believes he is Beverly's son and Leonard is just some waif who is in the way.  Showing complete disregard for Leonard's feelings. So glad to see Amy giving him the clear explanation of how Leonard reacts.  Thought Penny would have reamed Beverly a new one but she cut herself short in doing so.

[MTBigBangTheoryFan]

Seem like I have seen the guest star from last night episode (Denise Roommate Mitch) on another TV Show before.. Does anyone know if he been in anything else?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KripkeRules]

8 minutes ago, MTBigBangTheoryFan said:

Seem like I have seen the guest star from last night episode (Denise Roommate Mitch) on another TV Show before.. Does anyone know if he been in anything else?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I recognized him immediately, I've seen him on Raising Hope, he was Frank, a weird friend of Jimmy and Sabrina, and Kate Micucci (Raj's ex Lucy) , working in the supermarket. 

 

[Kathy2611]

1 hour ago, MTBigBangTheoryFan said:

Seem like I have seen the guest star from last night episode (Denise Roommate Mitch) on another TV Show before.. Does anyone know if he been in anything else?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Besides what @KripkeRules said he was also in Malcolm in the Middle as one of Fransis’ old friends 

[MTBigBangTheoryFan]

1 hour ago, KripkeRules said:

I recognized him immediately, I've seen him on Raising Hope, he was Frank, a weird friend of Jimmy and Sabrina, and Kate Micucci (Raj's ex Lucy) , working in the supermarket. 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Kathy2611 said:

Besides what @KripkeRules said he was also in Malcolm in the Middle as one of Fransis’ old friends 

Okay, Thank You. Not the actor I was thinking of then but there is sure is bit of a resemblance.  I have to admit, I have never watch the two shows mentioned above but have heard of them. 

Edited May 10, 2019 by MTBigBangTheoryFan

[joyceraye]

4 hours ago, bfm said:

I was just surprised that she would start a new job in a new country right away

The USA had been a new country. She must have moved there for work. It's what she does. Accepting the job,however, before even running it by Raj was somewhat insensitive, I thought. Even though they weren't engaged they were supposed to be courting with that in view. Some people live in careers rather than places and the hospitality industry by its nature seems to attract them. London might be the pinnacle for many in that line of work, given all  the tourism, and I can see how a free and single person being offered a job they've always wanted may well jump at the chance, but on someone who has no ear for music, doesn't go to the theatre or cinema and doesn't appear to have interests in much outside work, the personal cultural opportunities would be wasted. Raj would like it but as Howard implied, he'd be enjoying it without his wife.

[Zephon75]

Well i actually thought this was one of the better episodes this season, much better than what we got last week. Leonard / Beverly plot was about what i expected at first, her only there to do research. I liked Penny trying to tell Beverly off , even though it didn't work, the final scene for Leonard/ Beverly surprised me .

The Stuart/Denise plot would have been quite boring except for her weird room mate he was weird but also funny.

So Raj is once again all alone ,i should be surprised but it was pretty obvious it would happen as the writers seem to forget about his relationship with Anu because of there over focus on the boring Super Asymmetry/Nobel Prize arc..

[joyceraye]

3 hours ago, MTBigBangTheoryFan said:

Seem like I have seen the guest star from last night episode (Denise Roommate Mitch) on another TV Show before.. Does anyone know if he been in anything else ?

 

He was in Raising Hope, another American sitcom, a few years ago.

[MsGreentea]

4 hours ago, Mario D. said:

Could not agree with you more.  I think he really believes he is Beverly's son and Leonard is just some waif who is in the way.  Showing complete disregard for Leonard's feelings. So glad to see Amy giving him the clear explanation of how Leonard reacts.  Thought Penny would have reamed Beverly a new one but she cut herself short in doing so.

This was an unintentional preview of a scene where Sheldon’s children tell him they forgive him for being whatever it is that he is.

[Kev0821]

Here's Mayim's recap of the episode:

https://groknation.com/culture/maternal-conclusion-big-bang-theory-recap/

[MsGreentea]

On 5/9/2019 at 11:27 PM, Sah said:

I thought it was fine. My favorite parts were Raj and Howard, and Stuart and Denise. Raj and Howard have made me laugh over and over again with their amazing bromance. 

I really did not enjoy the high pitched Howard squeal begging Raj to stay.  To me it was the low part of the episode.  The message was good and  the Raj Howard storyline was good and I am certainly okay with Anu not being the one and Raj not feeling quite so sorry for himself.  It really is okay for a 30 something person to be single even if they would ultimately like a life partner.  

[Mario D.]

27 minutes ago, MsGreentea said:

I really did not enjoy the high pitched Howard squeal begging Raj to stay.  To me it was the low part of the episode.  The message was good and  the Raj Howard storyline was good and I am certainly okay with Anu not being the one and Raj not feeling quite so sorry for himself.  It really is okay for a 30 something person to be single even if they would ultimately like a life partner.  

Although the Raj/Anu/Howard plot was very good, I do have an observation.  I may be in the minority here but from my POV didn't Howard seem a little selfish in trying to persuade Raj not to go, like he was loosing his best friend to play with. Reminiscient of season 3 when Raj and Sheldon worked long hours together and Howard did not know what to do with himself but go to Penny and Leonard and annoy them as a third wheel in their relationship.  I am not saying Howard should not have done this as he was trying to be a caring best friend. But isn't  better for Raj to decide for himself instead of being nudged one way or the other. And if this was the last time we see Anu it was such a waste of a plot line

[April]

30 minutes ago, MsGreentea said:

 It really is okay for a 30 something person to be single even if they would ultimately like a life partner.  

I don't have a problem with Raj being single as such but I think it's such a waste of time to have year after year where they tell the same failed relationship story with him. It's so repetitive and got the character nowhere.

It's like they simply do not know what to do with Raj in a relationship. Every time anything got more serious his girlfriends would suddenly be written out. Lucy just left him in a hurry (at least that cause Raj to be able to speak to women, the only real change he had in 12 seasons!), Emily was nowhere to be seen the moment her actress was promoted to regular, same with what's-her-name when he started two-timing her with Emily, and now Anu had the same fate in that the moment they decide to have a normal dating relationship she suddenly wasn't on the show anymore for about half a season only to come back to be written out. Like wtf, writers???